ASM 194- The Latest ASM Issue Blowing Up? 2 2

[MAR1979]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:22 PM, Jaydogrules said:

...and if you think that is "a lot" in a 9.8, star wars 1 has just under 800.  

-J.

and more are coming. Star Wars however is true pop culture royalty, Felicia Hardy not so much. 

Based on your initial post that started this thread you appear to have a vested fi$cal interest in the book. My mostly worthless opinion (insert your argumentative dig here) is there is at least some bias at play on your part.

On 6/29/2021 at 5:53 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Yup.

 

'Bout damn time.  

-J.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by MAR1979

[Jaydogrules]

On 1/4/2022 at 3:30 PM, MAR1979 said:

and more are coming. Star Wars however is true pop culture royalty, Felicia Hardy not so much. 

Based on your initial post that started this thread you appear to have a vested fi$cal interest in the book. My mostly worthless opinion (insert your dig here) is there is at least some bias at play on your part.

 

 

Felicia Hardy in the MCU is also what people are expecting at this point.  The MCU is bigger than Star Wars.  One Spider-man movie alone is about to pass the grosses of almost every star wars movie ever made (not adjusted for inflation).

That should tell you all you need to know.  

(I own one copy of the book, not that it really matters,, I am also an ASM and Black Cat fan obviously, that's the point of these threads, to talk about our favorite books and characters, which also includes price trends )

-J.

[Hamlet]

On 1/1/2022 at 5:57 AM, sledgehammer said:

How could it be "manipulated"?

What I said is that it doesn't feel genuine to me.

I would say the exact same thing about Madame Web's first appearance in ASM 210.

I would have said a similar thing about Hydro Man's first appearance.

I said the same thing about Mantis in Avengers 112.

 

I would say that ASM 194 is a much more important book than any of those examples.  Any Spidey collector who read the Spectacular Spiderman in the 1980s is going to want a copy of this book.  It’s an actual key book, rather than a pure speculation driven book like those.

That said, I think the prices people are paying for it are pretty crazy right now ( I would say that about most key books, TBH ).  

It is also a very common book that is always readily available.  There will be better times to buy it, IMO.

[sledgehammer]

On 1/4/2022 at 9:12 PM, Hamlet said:

On 1/1/2022 at 5:57 AM, sledgehammer said:

How could it be "manipulated"?

What I said is that it doesn't feel genuine to me.

I would say the exact same thing about Madame Web's first appearance in ASM 210.

I would have said a similar thing about Hydro Man's first appearance.

I said the same thing about Mantis in Avengers 112.

 

I would say that ASM 194 is a much more important book than any of those examples.  Any Spidey collector who read the Spectacular Spiderman in the 1980s is going to want a copy of this book.  It’s an actual key book, rather than a pure speculation driven book like those.

Sure. It's so much about the Black Cat that her second appearance, of which there have been less than 200 9.8 gradings, could have been had for $200 a couple of years ago.

Doesn't feel genuine to me, and never will.

[Hamlet]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:34 AM, sledgehammer said:

Sure. It's so much about the Black Cat that her second appearance, of which there have been less than 200 9.8 gradings, could have been had for $200 a couple of years ago.

Doesn't feel genuine to me, and never will.

Nobody cares about 2nd appearances. 

ASM 194 has been a key book for over a decade.  The recent jump in price is silly, but that doesn't mean that the book isn't important to a lot of Spiderman collectors.

I have a rough VG copy, and I've been too cheap to upgrade it for at least 10 years, but I have been mildly interested in doing so that whole time.  I'm pretty sure it isn't going to happen anytime soon. 

 

[Math Teacher]

On 1/4/2022 at 9:06 AM, MAR1979 said:

Agreed. When a book is somewhere in the approximate neighborhood of low quantity (say under 40 on Copper/Modern in 9.6 and higher and under 30 on Bronze in 9.4 or higher)  its way too difficult for the Flippers/Speculators/Social Media bandwagon jumpers/etc get a hold of copies in order to get the machinations flowing to make the fast bank they require.

Agreed. The only people that can benefit by these brief run-up of prices are the people who already have nice copies of the book. If someone tries to send a copy of this book to CGC, the bloom will be off the rose by the time it gets back. You could try to sell it raw, and you might be successful if you have a reputation of accurate grading. Or you could pay for walkthrough grading, but unless you have a guaranteed 9.0 or higher, it certainly wouldn't be worth it.

[MAR1979]

On 1/5/2022 at 10:07 AM, Hamlet said:

Nobody cares about 2nd appearances. 

 

Unless it's Wolverine or Venom, in Hulk 181 and ASM 300

I know what you meant though, just injecting some humor.

 

P.S. IMHO the last page full splash of Venom in ASM 299 is by far nicer than any Venom page in ASM 300. At least with Hulk 181 it's Wolverine's first cover.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by MAR1979

[Jaydogrules]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:18 AM, Math Teacher said:

Agreed. The only people that can benefit by these brief run-up of prices are the people who already have nice copies of the book. If someone tries to send a copy of this book to CGC, the bloom will be off the rose by the time it gets back. You could try to sell it raw, and you might be successful if you have a reputation of accurate grading. Or you could pay for walkthrough grading, but unless you have a guaranteed 9.0 or higher, it certainly wouldn't be worth it.

 

The book has been trending up for the last 6+ years.  

-J.

[sledgehammer]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:07 AM, Hamlet said:

On 1/5/2022 at 8:34 AM, sledgehammer said:

Sure. It's so much about the Black Cat that her second appearance, of which there have been less than 200 9.8 gradings, could have been had for $200 a couple of years ago.

Doesn't feel genuine to me, and never will.

Nobody cares about 2nd appearances. 

ASM 194 has been a key book for over a decade. 

Unless it's something genuine, like the Punisher.

As recently as 7 years ago,  ASM 194 had the same value in 9.2 as ASM 130-133

$85

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by sledgehammer

[sledgehammer]

On 1/5/2022 at 11:41 AM, Jaydogrules said:

 

The book has been trending up for the last 6+ years.  

-J.

Somebody paid $1,000 for a 9.8 13 years ago, and somebody paid $1,200 for one in early 2018.

[Hamlet]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:06 PM, sledgehammer said:

Unless it's something genuine, like the Punisher.

As recently as 7 years ago,  ASM 194 had the same value in 9.2 as ASM 130-133

$85

 

It’s 6 years newer than those books.  I’m also not saying it should be super expensive, since there are lots and lots of copies of ASM from that era.  I’m just saying that if you are picking out ASM keys between 151-225, it is probably one of the first books you grab, and has been for a long time.  She was in almost every Spectacular Spiderman book for 2-3 years.  If you collected Spiderman in 1980s, you probably want her first appearance.  
 

[Shrevvy]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:09 PM, sledgehammer said:

Somebody paid $1,000 for a 9.8 13 years ago, and somebody paid $1,200 for one in early 2018.

This sale?

That's really cherry picking a data point. It did not see $1000 again until December 2014. That seems to be an outlier for some reason. Just eyeballing the trend, the book was flat to down from 2003 to 2013. It rose from 2013 to 2015, dipped in 2016 and began to rise in 2017 thru today. Data is a bit sparse in the early years. From 2003 to 2008, GPA shows a total of 20 sales. There were 16 sales in 2009. From 2010 to 2021, sales ranged from 20 to 35 copies per year.

[Randall Dowling]

On 1/5/2022 at 11:41 AM, Jaydogrules said:

 

The book has been trending up for the last 6+ years.  

-J.

Your efforts to pump up the price haven't gone unnoticed.  

[Jaydogrules]

On 1/5/2022 at 5:26 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Your efforts to pump up the price haven't gone unnoticed.  

Its funny you think that's something anyone would need to do.

Enjoy the ride!

-J.

[MAR1979]

It does appears that comments or hype on this very Bronze sub-forum can have some effect on going rate.

See the Pizzazz post 2/3 of the way down this page: https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/271979-bronze-age-comics-that-are-heating-up-on-ebay/page/541/#comments

Edited January 6, 2022 by MAR1979

[Randall Dowling]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:21 PM, MAR1979 said:

It does appears that comments or hype on this very Bronze sub-forum can have some effect on going rate.

See the Pizzazz post 2/3 of the way down this page: https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/271979-bronze-age-comics-that-are-heating-up-on-ebay/page/541/#comments

Yep.  As I mentioned before, I've watched a few do this repeatedly with certain books.  Again, FWIW, it's not whether or not ASM 194 is a key book or has some value.  It is and it does.  The books that these guys pump usually are.  It's that they pump them up way past any rational value because they have many, many copies and they want as a big an inflated price as possible before they liquidate.

If someone is pushing how something is worth an amazing amount of money and should be worth even more, you should immediately assume they have a vested interest in that thing going up in price.  Which means that whatever they say, it's not unbiased.  

[Lazyboy]

On 1/4/2022 at 9:12 PM, Hamlet said:

Any Spidey collector who read the Spectacular Spiderman in the 1980s is going to want a copy of this book.

If that's what's driving it, shouldn't they already have a copy? One that they've had for 30+ years?

Maybe newer readers/collectors are finally starting to realize that Marvel has been almost 100% for over two decades now and are going back to read CA Spidey.

[lou_fine]

On 1/4/2022 at 3:43 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Felicia Hardy in the MCU is also what people are expecting at this point.

Well, let's not forget how big Carol Danvers was in the MCU, even much more so than this Felicia Hardy.  Especially she was big enogh to headline her own movie, with another one on the way and her character, Captain Marvel, deemed to be a key central figure in the MCU going forward.  

And yet her first appearance in MSH which used to sell for multiples to condition guide, with a second highest CGC 9.6 even selling into the $30K's, can now generally be had at a discount to condition guide.  So, not sure how things are going to turn out for Spidey 194 when there are so many hundreds of copies in uber HG already, especially in comparison to MSH 13 with single digit copies in uber HG and yet they still couldn't maintain their prices longer term.  

Actually, the book which I see heading for a big big fall is the supposedly HTF, but in actual fact readily available variant edition of Ultimate Fallout 4, with CGC 9.8 graded copies selling for $30K+.  As I had alluded to in another post a few weeks ago:  

On 12/16/2021 at 8:14 PM, lou_fine said:

To each their own, but even more mind blowing amazing to think that somebody would pay $30K for a copy of this book considering that there's already 175 slabbed copies of this book in this exact same graded condition and with another 250 knocking right on its doorstep.    

Wonder what the buyer will think 2 years from now after the new Spidey movie is long gone from the big screen and CGC clears up some of their massive backlog from their 100,000+ square foot holding facility and crank out a whole bunch more of this book in equivalent or possibly even in higher grade.    

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by lou_fine

[sledgehammer]

 

On 1/5/2022 at 1:09 PM, Shrevvy said:

This sale?

 

That's really cherry picking a data point. It did not see $1000 again until December 2014. That seems to be an outlier for some reason. Just eyeballing the trend, the book was flat to down from 2003 to 2013. It rose from 2013 to 2015, dipped in 2016 and began to rise in 2017 thru today. Data is a bit sparse in the early years. From 2003 to 2008, GPA shows a total of 20 sales. There were 16 sales in 2009. From 2010 to 2021, sales ranged from 20 to 35 copies per year.

Flat to down, in 2004, when two copies sold for  $800 and $1,035?

The value of that money would have been how much lower 14 years later?

This book was doing nothing but drifting until about 3 years ago.

Edited January 6, 2022 by sledgehammer

[sledgehammer]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:10 AM, Lazyboy said:

If that's what's driving it, shouldn't they already have a copy? One that they've had for 30+ years?

Maybe newer readers/collectors are finally starting to realize that Marvel has been almost 100% for over two decades now and are going back to read CA Spidey.

They have to be smart enough to know there's a $5 reprint available.