The Future of Golden Age comic book collecting post 2021: Blackstone, Promise and Beyond: The great unknown. 1 1

[N e r V]

2 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

These three bullet points may be the short term trifecta for third-party grading company success.  The $63,000 question is who benefits most from this long term?  

Anyone care to speculate? 

 

You know full well that that isn't the elephant in the room!  

Well as soon as Mr. Bezos gets back from his space flight he’s gonna’ buy that elephant you’re talking about and offer free 2 day Prime shipping in a box with 1 piece of 6X8 bubble wrap for secure packing and a promise every book will be completely checked/graded/slabbed in less than 5 minutes by one of their highly trained graders that makes $15.00 an hour. 
The only problem might be if Mr. Musk works out the bugs first on his self driving slab the Tesla Slab Model 3 currently in the works in a secret lab in Hawthorne California…

[Cat-Man_America]

8 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

Thanks for the speculation. The world of selling and buying collectibles will move forward and be a good place for sellers and buyers only when the following happens:

1) A regulatory body starts meticulously watching the collectibles “market” - this will in all probability happen at some point when enough people get burned - especially where there’s a great deal of money exchanged

2) Greater transparency in the auction process

3) Greater transparency in ownership so that business conflicts and possible collusion is avoided 

Only then will we have greater credibility and reliability in terms of the value of collectibles and a real market.

I’m looking forward to seeing this happen in the future so my fellow collectors and me continue to enjoy the hobby - a hobby that doesn’t exclusively revolve around these boards and the concept of graded books and their value.

John

I'm leaning towards agreement here with Mitch and bronze johnny that these things will likely happen over time, but not for any altruistic reasons.  My expectation is that along with the exponential rise of big money and volatility in the markets, state and Federal regulations will evolve to accommodate increased interest in private holdings, methods of trade and tax liability for all involved.  

There's certainly a silver lining for collectors in a securer, more trustworthy, regulated market, but no one should be deluded into thinking there won't be a price-tag.

[N e r V]

2 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Bronze Johnny you post directly deals with these issues raised by our Silent Majority viewers here, I am sure both myself and them agree with your very positive and insightful post 100%.  Thank You.

 

Why do I feel like watching Nixon’s November 3rd 1969 speech…

[Cat-Man_America]

18 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Well as soon as Mr. Bezos gets back from his space flight he’s gonna’ buy that elephant you’re talking about and offer free 2 day Prime shipping in a box with 1 piece of 6X8 bubble wrap for secure packing and a promise every book will be completely checked/graded/slabbed in less than 5 minutes by one of their highly trained graders that makes $15.00 an hour. 
The only problem might be if Mr. Musk works out the bugs first on his self driving slab the Tesla Slab Model 3 currently in the works in a secret lab in Hawthorne California…

Mr. Bezos wouldn't buy a dead elephant, ...everyone knows the poor beast passed away some time ago.   

...And Mr. Musk may have to mothball his self-driving Tesla, ...The Texas Hammer has his license plate!

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Cat-Man_America

[N e r V]

20 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

Mr. Bezos wouldn't buy a dead elephant, ...everyone knows the poor beast passed away some time ago.   

Uh, Whole Foods anyone?

[Cat-Man_America]

Just now, N e r V said:

Uh, Whole Foods anyone?

My poor wallet and Amazon Prime delivery beg to differ with you! 

[batman_fan]

3 hours ago, N e r V said:

Uh, Whole Foods anyone?

In Boulder, CO  Whole Food use to be the busiest restaurant in the entire town pre covid.  They are in the process of returning to that status.

[N e r V]

Whole Foods is obviously still around but the direction forward has been pretty stagnant. The failure of the 365 stores spin-off and the fact that organic is no longer something that used to be a exclusive selling point for them. They didn’t keep up with the rapidly changing grocery business and having the nickname Whole Paycheck never helped. I shop there only occasionally now because that $20.00 bottle of cooking wine they carry can be had elsewhere for about 8 bucks. If I’m paying a premium than I expect a premium not same product…

[Courageous Cat]

in my 50's now, but I recall in my early years yearning for the day when comics would get their due respect...well, 2021 is here and now they have major respect, but if your new to the hobby and unless you're a Silicon Valley guy or crypto guru, its looks like funny animal will be your collection theme indefinitely  (no offense to funny animal folks)

Edited July 4, 2021 by Courageous Cat

[KCOComics]

2 hours ago, Courageous Cat said:

in my 50's now, but I recall in my early years learning for the day when comics would get their due respect...well. 2021 is here and now they have major respect, but if your new to the hobby and unless you're a Silicon Valley guy or crypto guru, its looks like funny animal will be your collection theme indefinitely  (no offense to funny animal folks)

There are still some really cool genres that aren't outrageous. The Atomic age into SA Science Fiction books like Strange Adventure are cool and generally affordable. 

I've been buying high grade BA horror books which are still reasonable for now.  The ballooning prices have forced me to get my fix elsewhere. 

 But if your looking for strictly Gold, it's funny animals and Westerns really. 

[tth2]

16 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I haven't been able to buy any books of any quality since 2013. Anything I've bought since then has basically been riff raff. It probably doesn't even make sense for me to still be participating in the hobby.

Good thing you haven't let your bitterness affect your posts! 

[batman_fan]

3 hours ago, N e r V said:

Whole Foods is obviously still around but the direction forward has been pretty stagnant. The failure of the 365 stores spin-off and the fact that organic is no longer something that used to be a exclusive selling point for them. They didn’t keep up with the rapidly changing grocery business and having the nickname Whole Paycheck never helped. I shop there only occasionally now because that $20.00 bottle of cooking wine they carry can be had elsewhere for about 8 bucks. If I’m paying a premium than I expect a premium not same product…

In Boulder you can definitely see a switch in the quality of the product.  You also see less "full service" and much more "self service".  The bakery is a good example of that.  Produce is now almost 100% organic but looks about the same as King Soopers.  Their meat and seafood counters are still the best in our town.  The main things I buy there are pizza dough (actually really good), pizza sauce, cheese, and odd ball, weird, strange, and typically on the nastier side for taste drinks.

[Bronty]

On 7/2/2021 at 4:07 PM, KCOComics said:

Mitch - I love your market prediction posts. 

I think this move will be far less sweeping and grandiose than you predicted. 

From a strictly business stand point, this was a no brainer for Blackstone.  CGC has a product with huge demand and they can't meet that demand, despite their best efforts to scale. 

An investor looks at that, CGCs position in the market and how they've taken action to diversify in the collectible space and sees a great opportunity to improve effecienicies and grow market share in new areas (cards).  

Blackstone will make them more efficient and continue to grow the brand and product. 

I think this is less an indication of where GA is going and more a comment on the sustainability of comics as an asset. Also it's about the growth potential of cards and Blackstone's ability to scale that business. 

Will this be a good thing collectors? I'm not sure. Over the next year I would expect improved TATs, an easier submission process, better quality control and an overall more efficient company. 

The key will be to streamline without hurting grading standards.  

+1 these Wall St investors seem to look at the year long wait times as an asset .   Built in extra revenue if they scale up . 

[Timely]

Having worked at CGG for 7 years, I can tell you CGC is an afterthought for both Steve E. and Mark S. I’d bet the same holds true for Blackwell. 99% of the funds allocated will go towards the company’s money-maker (NGC) and new ventures.

[Mmehdy]

3 hours ago, Timely said:

Having worked at CGG for 7 years, I can tell you CGC is an afterthought for both Steve E. and Mark S. I’d bet the same holds true for Blackwell. 99% of the funds allocated will go towards the company’s money-maker (NGC) and new ventures.

I have no doubt about your time at CGC for 7 years. However, I respectfully disagree with your CGC asset priority or valuation contribution .  It is no longer Steve and Marks show, but Blackstone. This company takes every single asset and exploits their value to the maximum. They will throw any money necessary to make more money and I ask to look at this $500 million dollar investment and the new Blackstone  sheriff in town.

Here are some facts, Blackstone controls 684.8 Billion dollars in assets, now LOL another 500 million which is probably worth 600M overnight or say 685B and in terms of this investment they asset worth  1370 times which they just wrote a check for. In addition, the fund itself has a capital value of 66.82 B dollars or 133 times plus the value of the check they just wrote. There is NO way their bean-counters are gonna forget the CGC, leave any money on the table when sell, and quite likely keep the CGC asset for a long time, making after investing a return out performing the stock market or their minimum return to retain asset requirement. In other words, these guys are the real deal.  CGC is small compared to what they own, will own etc, I am board with that realization . But these guys know the future value of comic books because of the incredible media and entertainment  created by past and even new comic book characters. There are enough characters created to next 500 years even if it were to stop today. These guys really do not think like you or I or the individual investor or probably even Steve or Mark. They will chase additional profits with their money without hesitation. Blackstone will never leave a investment dollar on the table, when and if they sell.

 I am not inferring that coin collecting is any less as important here, but I do not see record breaking movies and platform/tv series about coin collecting or the coins themselves. I do think that ALL streams, including the CGC will be cash infused. $ wise coin collecting or other collectable fields could generate more gross sales and profits, but strongly disagree that 99% if funds allocated will go toward the NGC and new ventures. I agree they will expand or seek new ventures, and I agree the NGC is very profitable, but these guys have enough money and resources to fund every activity which would be profitable and increase overall company value both long term and short term.

 Of course, when Blackstone yearly reviews profit and gross sales, and  sees a ability to add or raise the cost of services such as CGC pressing and grading they are gonna go for it. But Blackstone is not in the asset killing business, but in the asset  creation and expansion business of value business . Yes, they do "flip" assets but,  I have feeling things are just getting started here in our GA/SA or entire comic books world. Look for this to be not the last major announcement concerning Wall Street involvement in grading, auction house, and large retail comic book companies. Your post gives "Food for thought" and especially your personal insight into the very workings of the CGC and its rank among the existing components. But as Ed used to say introducing Johnny Carson on the "Tonight Show".  Heerrres ....Blackstone.

 This is the tip of the iceberg 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Mmehdy]

13 hours ago, KCOComics said:

There are still some really cool genres that aren't outrageous. The Atomic age into SA Science Fiction books like Strange Adventure are cool and generally affordable. 

I've been buying high grade BA horror books which are still reasonable for now.  The ballooning prices have forced me to get my fix elsewhere. 

 But if your looking for strictly Gold, it's funny animals and Westerns really. 

I agree 100% with this. There are always "deals" out there. Yes, Robo this is 2021, not 1975 or even say 1995. But some of  the DC SF SA books and especially 10cent cover price have gone shockingly unnoticed price wise and still have some play in them. The DC SF and I would include also the WAR books are just as great and have play left in them. Yes, Marvel overshadows them, but at some point in the future they will catch up. The key is buying them before they really go crazy. It is a harder today to obtain great material at a reasonable market price and clearly in 2021 and demand is at a all time high, especially among long term GA/SA collectors who know that good material is gonna appreciate down the collecting road. In GA, of course due to rarity and age this is a tougher call or find, But I would say there still could be some really good buys on ungraded and hopefully unrestored GA..which is at least not at the CGC price graded level. It is a gamble.

 But there is always hope and room for every GA/SA collector to improve their lifetime collection, it takes more time but the win and payoff more than makes up for it.

Happy 4th... to one and all.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Terry JSA]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:43 AM, waaaghboss said:

So basically,  as a collector not an investor, my hobby is going to get more expensive?

It seems like that nowadays. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Terry_JSA

[lou_fine]

41 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

4 hours ago, Timely said:

Having worked at CGG for 7 years, I can tell you CGC is an afterthought for both Steve E. and Mark S. I’d bet the same holds true for Blackwell. 99% of the funds allocated will go towards the company’s money-maker (NGC) and new ventures.

I have no doubt about your time at CGC for 7 years. However, I respectfully disagree with your CGC asset priority or valuation contribution .  It is no longer Steve and Marks show, but Blackstone. This company takes every single asset and exploits their value to the maximum. They will throw any money necessary to make more money and I ask to look at this $500 million dollar investment and the new Blackstone  sheriff in town.

Hey Mitch;

Definitely interesting to read everybody's take on this buyout of CCG as it sounds like a lot of boardies seem to be over reacting to this whole business transaction and see it as ranging from an almost  doomsday scenario right through to the dawning of a great new age money wise for the world of collectible comic books. 

Personally, I see it really more from West's point of view and think it's just going to be more of the same old, same old than anything earth shattering to the comic book side of this business transaction.  Especially when you take a look art the names of the other 4 investors who have joined in on this purchase here and it would appear that their background is all related to the sports industry.  Now, if you saw names like Geppi, Fishler, etc. or some of the other big or former big players in the comic book industry, then I might feel different here.  That's why I believe the focus here will really be much more on the sports card side of the business which CCG is just starting up on and as West stated, the comics side of the business is basically just going to be an afterthought FOR NOW, as they got much bigger fish to fry.  

Being passionate comic book collectors that we all are on the boards here, I totally understand why you feel that the comic books are the big dog here and the be all and end all of this transaction here.  Yet in reality, the comic book portions of the whole CCG operation which they purchased (i.e. CCS and CGC) are probably really more like the tail on a English Bulldog and we know that it's really never ever the tail that wags the dog.  

[bronze johnny]

5 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Hey Mitch;

Definitely interesting to read everybody's take on this buyout of CCG as it sounds like a lot of boardies seem to be over reacting to this whole business transaction and see it as ranging from an almost  doomsday scenario right through to the dawning of a great new age money wise for the world of collectible comic books. 

Personally, I see it really more from West's point of view and think it's just going to be more of the same old, same old than anything earth shattering to the comic book side of this business transaction.  Especially when you take a look art the names of the other 4 investors who have joined in on this purchase here and it would appear that their background is all related to the sports industry.  Now, if you saw names like Geppi, Fishler, etc. or some of the other big or former big players in the comic book industry, then I might feel different here.  That's why I believe the focus here will really be much more on the sports card side of the business which CCG is just starting up on and as West stated, the comics side of the business is basically just going to be an afterthought FOR NOW, as they got much bigger fish to fry.  

Being passionate comic book collectors that we all are on the boards here, I totally understand why you feel that the comic books are the big dog here and the be all and end all of this transaction here.  Yet in reality, the comic book portions of the whole CCG operation which they purchased (i.e. CCS and CGC) are probably really more like the tail on a English Bulldog and we know that it's really never ever the tail that wags the dog.  

Time will tell.

Edited July 4, 2021 by bronze johnny

[lou_fine]

2 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/collectors-holdings-goldin-auctions-sale/

This goes only further to prove my point that it's really so much more to do with the huge potential they see in terms of growing the sports card side of CCG's operations, as opposed to the CCS and CGC side of the operations.  

I find the Genamint side of the business which they are working on to be rather interesting going forward and wonder if this scenario for the AI or artificial intelligence grading and detection of pressing for trading cards could ever shift over to comic books if found to be successfully workable and accurate?