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The Future of Golden Age comic book collecting post 2021: Blackstone, Promise and Beyond: The great unknown.
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147 posts in this topic

On 7/20/2021 at 2:37 PM, lou_fine said:

Nah, it's already been too late for pulps since a few years ago as they have slowly been creeping into the comic book auctions over time. 

If you really want to get ahead of the curve here, you need to load up on the rare and HTF BLB's in grade before they start to wake up from their almost century long slumber.  :gossip:

Good call, next logical choice, but I disagree with pulps and being too late....when you see the price growth over the next 5 years from the day the first CGC graded pulp hits the internet you are gonna wish you had the opportunity to buy them at today's prices.\ and especially ultra high grade copies.

Edited by Mmehdy
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On 7/20/2021 at 2:37 PM, lou_fine said:

If you really want to get ahead of the curve here, you need to load up on the rare and HTF BLB's in grade before they start to wake up from their almost century long slumber.  :gossip:

In that case, I am glad I kept that long box of vg Westerns, Tarzan, Korak, son of Tarzan, Lone Ranger and Tonto. Will trade you for pulps ... trimming optional but then trimmed pulps will fit 'better' in the slab.

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On 7/21/2021 at 5:37 AM, lou_fine said:

If you really want to get ahead of the curve here, you need to load up on the rare and HTF BLB's in grade before they start to wake up from their almost century long slumber.  :gossip:

Boy did Geppi do his best to push those, along with rings.

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On 7/19/2021 at 8:32 PM, aardvark88 said:

Matt Nelson speaks about Blackstone, Ponsetti, Ciccone, E. Gerber, Matt Nelson, Baltimore con onsite grading, rampant hiring of folks that know the basics about comics, etc.

 

I tried to watch it but appears like a grab azz fest.  What is said about Ponsetti and Ciccone?

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On 7/20/2021 at 6:03 PM, batman_fan said:

like a grab azz fest.  What is said about Ponsetti and Ciccone?

Old school Ponsetti with pics of his 'More Fun GA' find including Action #1 up. Positive things said by President M. Nelson about his resto origin, Susan Ciccone, Tracy Heft, E. Gerber.

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On 7/20/2021 at 4:55 PM, Mmehdy said:

We as old timers and other advanced collectors still have time to buy, especially on E-bay etc as we are still ahead of the curve, however that widow is  closing...

That's disappointing. I've always found open widows more enticing than the others.

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On 7/20/2021 at 5:59 PM, tth2 said:

Boy did Geppi do his best to push those, along with rings.

He did, the interesting question is will Pulp grading be more expensive than comic book grading, given the fact you have a very large page count that needs to be verified. I see additonal work here, plus who or what determines the market value, possibily the Guide published Ha or will there be some sort of GPA for pulps created?.  Rings or BLB...I would assume that CGC would go in the direction of BLB...it is possible they could grade comic book collectables such as rings or EC fan additic kits etc...they will expand for sure in the future.

Edited by Mmehdy
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On 7/21/2021 at 1:22 PM, Mmehdy said:

He did, the interesting question is will Pulp grading be more expensive than comic book grading, given the fact you have a very large page count that needs to be verified. I see additonal work here, plus who or what determines the market value, possibily the Guide published Ha or will there be some sort of GPA for pulps created?.  Rings or BLB...I would assume that CGC would go in the direction of BLB...it is possible they could grade comic book collectables such as rings or EC fan additic kits etc...they will expand for sure in the future.

CGC will never grade BLBs or premiums. Too limited market and the dollar levels on most are let’s just say “less impressive” price wise. 

Will be real hard to price pulp grading at current sales figures. HA auction prices would be too high and guide prices too low. Not to mention, many pulps never change hands publicaly. 

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On 7/21/2021 at 7:06 PM, Robot Man said:

CGC will never grade BLBs or premiums. Too limited market and the dollar levels on most are let’s just say “less impressive” price wise. 

Will be real hard to price pulp grading at current sales figures. HA auction prices would be too high and guide prices too low. Not to mention, many pulps never change hands publicaly. 

I suspect the CGC will use a similar system to that used in The Bookery's Guide to Pulps with designated letter grades rather than numerical simplifying grading somewhat.  You're probably right about BLB's, rings and character associated premiums, isn't a large enough market to draw from.  As for pulps changing hands publicly, that may be true, but if the auction prices and collecting market values increases they'll change hands a lot more, and publicly.

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On 7/23/2021 at 12:10 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

As for pulps changing hands publicly, that may be true, but if the auction prices and collecting market values increases they'll change hands a lot more, and publicly.

Agreed.  It wasn't that long ago that virtually all comic sales were private deals.

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On 7/20/2021 at 1:07 PM, Robot Man said:

Pulps are pulps NOT comic books. They need a different grading standard. I have said that about perfect bound comic book annuals and Giants for years. 

Many were made with overhangs. Like it or not. They also had squared, glued bindings. If you allow trimming, what about pressing which might or might not press out with damage? Glue might dry out or crack. Not to mention pulp paper is even cheaper than comic paper. Heat is not kind to old cheap paper. 

Any “work” done on them is alteration and should be graded as such. If we allow trimming, how many beautiful pulps will be destroyed just as comics were when we all allowed tape? 

We have a clean slate with pulps. Let’s get it right the first time and respect the integrity of the pulp as it is. 

But when the big greenbacks come out, I suspect many blind eyes will come out as well. 

Obviously, there will have to be holders designed to take overhangs into consideration. 

:sumo:

I'll add that they will have to consider how to factor PQ in as well as pulp paper and comic paper are very different.  Those ratty overhangs on the pages are often fragile.  

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On 7/22/2021 at 9:10 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

I suspect the CGC will use a similar system to that used in The Bookery's Guide to Pulps with designated letter grades rather than numerical simplifying grading somewhat.  You're probably right about BLB's, rings and character associated premiums, isn't a large enough market to draw from.  As for pulps changing hands publicly, that may be true, but if the auction prices and collecting market values increases they'll change hands a lot more, and publicly.

I agree, the pulps are different animals entirely.  Page quality and unheard of white page quality will be a very significant value factor here. I think a 9.8 comic book wise will be almost impossible in the pulp area, there could be a few.  Someone needs to create a pulp value website tracking all of these auctions, especially the new ones, as I see price changing in the pulp world to be accerlated greatly. Maybe Bookery can have a updated website which could post the values if you purchased the price guide. As the pulp market expands, the need for information increases and for prices to increase on a solid foundation some reference site which is in current market time price wise would aid in pulp collecting coming into the 20220's collectable world. Any suggestions?

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On 7/3/2021 at 1:02 PM, Robot Man said:

I have actually sold a lot of stuff in the past year. ASTOUNDED as to what prices I have gotten at auction. I'm not complaining about high prices. Those books I paid nothing for have probably been the best investment I ever made. I didn't start out with that in mind though, it just worked out well financially. The problem is it's just money. Money is simply the vehicle to buy more stuff. Why get rid of stuff I love for the love of a number? 

Collecting has been a lifelong passion to me. The books are trophies and memories. Good memories. Is money the only thing that matters any more? We are all going to go out like we came in. Naked and screaming with nothing. It's the ride in between that counts. The discoveries, the finds, the friendships and the memories. Money just can't buy that. 

I've spoken to a number of long time collectors who have sold out. Sure the money is great but there is that big void missing in all of them in the end. I wonder what Jon Berk is doing and thinks now?

Such a wise man is Bob.  Amen, brother.

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Howdy. Just want to make sure I'm not misconstruing the recent sentiment expressed on the GA boards  FWIW, I'm pretty much done w/ my permanent PC (mutli-age, but mostly SA), so this is purely educational for me. That said, if I could do it all again, I would have more GA regardless of expected financial performance b/c I like to have cool stuff!   Anyway, post-Promise books, are folks now more enthusiastic about the long-term GA market generally (i.e., including non-pedigree and lower-grade GA books) compared to SA, BA, and CA keys?   

Prior to June, I thought the general consensus was that while GA keys in general could appreciate just fine over the long-term, they were unlikely to fare as well overall as SA, BA, and CA keys due to changing/younger buyers and/or pop culture.  Isn't it true that as of late 2020/early 2021, folks on these very boards were lamenting the evidence that GA's heyday was over (for whatever reason, e.g., older collectors being phased out by a group who cared less for the older stuff and/or dwindling relevance to pop culture, etc.).  Those folks pointed out (correctly?) that auction results and other published sales of popular GA genres, including PCH, early Cap America Comics, early All Star Comics, Startling Comics, etc) were cooling off and that one could expect better long-term gains from holding SA, BA, and CA  keys?   Folks noted that the most popular GA genres (PCH, early Cap, robot covers, etc) were only creeping up or flat since 2018/2019 compared to the gains by SA, BA, and CA keys since 2019.  

Fast forward to today, and the only GA-specific thing that has happened in the GA market is the Promise Collection.  So what does THAT mean about the future of the GA market in general?  It is one thing to say that ALL vintage books (GA, SA, BA, CA, etc) are now in higher demand as alternative investments, in which case GA's recent relative underperformance (compared to SA, BA, and CA keys) would remain true going forward long-term.  In other words, in that scenario, GA would still be good to hold, just not as lucrative as more recent vintage key books.  It is another thing to suggest that GA keys in general are now suddenly better long-term investments than SA, BA, or CA keys.    

If the latter is what boardies are saying, what is the basis for that?  Unless the substance of pop culture has changed overnight, shouldn't the sentiment expressed on these boards prior to the Promise books (i.e., prior to June 2021) remain unchanged?   I am assuming that Promise books are just another (albeit larger) instance of niche phenomena like other pedigrees and even AC1 or Tec27, whose valuations, no matter how lofty and/or exponential in growth, should have little effect on overall GA market valuations.  

In short, assuming GA in general remains a good investment long-term (I don't doubt that!), are folks expecting GA keys to outperform SA, BA, and CA keys in general despite the cooling-off that we saw during the past two years before the Promise books (as per folks on these boards, as noted; I didn't research this myself) ?   If so, why?   

 

Edited by Pantodude
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On 8/1/2021 at 1:32 PM, Ryan. said:

There was a cooling off period? 

Apparently, as I recall.  But I'm not infallible. I just tweaked my post to make clear it was based on what I recalled other folks had said, not my own research.   That said, I do recall (vaguely) that sales of early Cap America books softened in all grades, and some PCH, etc., as mentioned above, if that helps.  

Edited by Pantodude
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On 7/20/2021 at 2:54 PM, Mmehdy said:

Good call, next logical choice, but I disagree with pulps and being too late....when you see the price growth over the next 5 years from the day the first CGC graded pulp hits the internet you are gonna wish you had the opportunity to buy them at today's prices.\ and especially ultra high grade copies.

I like pulps, but do they have a real untapped market?  I grew up reading comics in the 8ps/90s, so GA comics were a natural progression.   I don't know anyone who grew up reading pulps.

 

 

Edited by waaaghboss
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On 8/1/2021 at 1:41 PM, waaaghboss said:

I like pulps, but do they have a real untapped market?  I grew up reading comics in the 8ps/90s, so GA comics were a natural progression.   I don't know anyone who grew up reading pulps.

 

 

Yes, we all do.  We all know the original Star Trek and Star Wars crews, and they (or the creators of the show/movies at least) "must" have read sci-fi pulps, which (as I posted recently) were the origin of the concepts/terms of warp drive/speed, hyperspace, and tractor beams.   (thumbsu  Seriously now, does anyone know whether William Shatner read sc-fi pulps?   

Edited by Pantodude
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On 8/1/2021 at 10:46 AM, Pantodude said:

Yes, we all do.  We all know the original Star Trek and Star Wars crews, and they (or the creators of the show/movies at least) "must" have read sci-fi pulps, which (as I posted recently) were the origin of the concepts/terms of warp drive/speed, hyperspace, and tractor beams.   (thumbsu  Seriously now, does anyone know whether William Shatner read sc-fi pulps?   

Shatner reading an old pulp set to music like his rocket man cover would be epic 😀

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