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Why is Harbinger 1 more expensive than other Valiant keys?
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48 posts in this topic

On 7/20/2021 at 8:39 AM, William-James88 said:

I was looking at go collect and right now, Harbinger 1 is listed as higher in 9.8, hence my topic title. Plus, in 9.6 and 9.4, Harbinger 1 is double the value of Solar 10.

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GoCollect is wrong - at least in 9.8

The 9.6 values are about right, however. Solar 10 is only rare in 9.8, whereas 9.6s traditionally ran ~$100.

However, that’s softened a bit - $90 is FMV - a recent Comiclink sale (not reported to GPA) was even less.

The point? Solar 10 in 9.8 has been consistently more expensive than Harbinger 1 in 9.8 for at least two years now, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

It’s a lower profile book with no movie buzz, but it’s harder to find in grade and more expensive - full stop.

 

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On 7/19/2021 at 1:17 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:
On 7/19/2021 at 12:10 PM, William-James88 said:

How is Rai the first original Valiant character if Harbinger 1 was earlier?

He appeared in Magnus Robot Fighter first. Also of note is that Toyo Harada appeared before Harbinger #1, in Solar.

Magnus Robot Fighter #4 (September 1991) has a trading card insert with Rai, but Magnus Robot Fighter #5 (October 1991) is definitely the first Rai story as a "flipbook" with a Rai #1 mini-series.

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The book is Magnus Robot Fighter #5, however, and it was ordered as Magnus Robot Fighter #5 - so it wasn't the first original Valiant title.

The first original Valiant title was Harbinger #1 (January 1992).

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Rai didn't get his own title (not sharing with Magnus) until Rai #1 (March 1992).

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Edited by valiantman
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On 7/20/2021 at 6:23 AM, Gatsby77 said:
On 7/19/2021 at 11:41 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

So after all these years, Solar 10 is the most expensive book in that early Valiant run in 9.8?  Not counting crazy error variants?

Yeah.

90-day GPA average for Solar 10 is $785, whereas Harbinger 1 is $648.

And 8-9 months ago the spread was bigger -- Harbinger was ~$600 whereas the Solar was ~$900.

Makes sense, as the Solar is still a bear in 9.8.

Census shows about 3x as many Harbinger 1s as Solar 10s (451 Universal vs. 153 Universal).

Correct - CGC 9.8 Solar #10 is tougher to obtain, and often sells for a higher price than CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1.

But, if you're talking about the tens of thousands of ungraded copies of Solar #10 and Harbinger #1, it's safe to say that Harbinger #1 is more expensive.

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On 7/17/2021 at 11:13 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

• First appearance of the 5 main characters. Other original Valiant creations were teased in other books. The X-O armor (but not Aric) popped up in Solar. Rai debuted in Magnus. Jack Boniface had a cameo in X-O before becoming Shadowman in his first issue.

Wasn't Toyo first in Solar as well? And so was the Harbinger foundation, I think.

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On 7/20/2021 at 11:13 AM, William-James88 said:
On 7/17/2021 at 10:13 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

• First appearance of the 5 main characters. Other original Valiant creations were teased in other books. The X-O armor (but not Aric) popped up in Solar. Rai debuted in Magnus. Jack Boniface had a cameo in X-O before becoming Shadowman in his first issue.

Wasn't Toyo first in Solar as well? And so was the Harbinger foundation, I think.

Yes, Toyo Harada appeared in Solar #3 (November 1991) and the Harbinger foundation was also shown.

Harbinger #1 was the first appearance of "the good guys" (Peter, Kris, Charlene, Faith, and Torque) of the Harbinger series.

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One more note about nostalgia, from someone who was there and remembers it well.

My LCS was fairly on-the-ball and stocked up on Valiant back issues as soon as the Previews issue advertising Unity hit.

So, at a time when Magnus 12 and X-0 # 5 were still on the stands, they had a full short box of earlier pre-Unity books.

When Unity hit and the books skyrocketed, they were ready - with all the early issues in-depth. Some pricing:

Magnus # 1 - $15

Solar # 1 - $10

X-O # 1 - $12

Shadowman 1 - $8

and Harbinger 1 - $35.

This was significant, because at the time the price guides were only pricing Harbinger 1 at $8-$10. Adult investors called up, were excited to hear they had Harbinger 1 in stock, then balked at the $35 price.

Meanwhile, later that summer, the Overstreet price for Harbinger # 1 tripled in just 60 days (due to the bi-monthly "Overstreet Updates"), going from $15 to $45 between issues.

This was *unheard of.*

Fast forward to spring/summer of 1993, and Keith Contario noted in his Overstreet Update market report that "people who balked at paying $35 for Harbinger # 1 a year ago now sheepishly hand over a c-note ($100 bill) for it."

At the time (mid-1993) well-informed collectors thought Harbinger would be the new X-Men, and the price would legit go to $250 in just another year or two.

For reference, it took X-Men # 94 seven years to rise to $100. Harbinger 1 did it in something like 15 months.

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On 7/20/2021 at 12:26 PM, Gatsby77 said:

 

For reference, it took X-Men # 94 seven years to rise to $100. Harbinger 1 did it in something like 15 months.

Yes, but the cover price on Harbinger is nearly 8X that of X-Men #94. How long did it take X-Men to reach $12.80? That would be more comparable.

Edited by GeeksAreMyPeeps
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On 7/20/2021 at 11:26 AM, Gatsby77 said:

For reference, it took X-Men # 94 seven years to rise to $100. Harbinger 1 did it in something like 15 months.

To be fair to X-Men #94, the cover price was $0.25, where Harbinger #1 was $1.95.  Harbinger #1 going to $100 would be like X-Men #94 going to $12.82. :foryou:

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On 7/20/2021 at 12:05 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Yes, but the cover price on Harbinger is nearly 8s that of X-Men #94. How long did it take X-Men to reach $12.80? That would be more comparable.

 

On 7/20/2021 at 12:06 PM, valiantman said:

To be fair to X-Men #94, the cover price was $0.25, where Harbinger #1 was $1.95.  Harbinger #1 going to $100 would be like X-Men #94 going to $12.82. :foryou:

@GeeksAreMyPeeps I think you beat my post by about 3 seconds. lol

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On 7/20/2021 at 9:52 PM, William-James88 said:

Wow, I guess that's definitely a book that "cooled down"

The total market value for CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 has actually risen greatly since then.  It's the individual copy prices that cooled down.

When CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 sold for $2,550 in March 2008, there were only 13 of them on the CGC Census.  The total market value for CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 was $33,150.

Currently CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 sells for $725 and there are 451 of them on the CGC Census.  That's a total market value of $326,975.

The price for an individual copy is lower, but the market for CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 today is ten times larger than in 2008.

(The same thing happens in stocks when you look at share price vs. market capitalization.)

Edited by valiantman
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On 7/16/2021 at 9:03 PM, William-James88 said:

Just wanted to know why compared to other Valiant keys, Harbinger 1 was so expensive. I'm basically comparing it to the first Bloodshot appearances, XO Manowar 1, first Ninjack, Shadowman, ect. Why would interest on this property (demand) be higher? Or is supply lower?

Shadowman, love me some Shadowman and the infamous Baron appearance 

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On 7/20/2021 at 10:32 AM, Wolverinex said:

Solar 10 is awesome

and the only Comic Book cover I can draw pencil and ink just as well as the original artist :)

 

Solar 10, like most Valiant,  there were a metric ton (edit: as was pointed out pre-Unity #1 , thus merely 1/2 a metric ton)  printed but look how few in percentage there are in CGC 9.8. Very, very difficult to score in 9.8 the only reason there are the 150 or so on the census is due to the overall quantity produced..  Even the tiniest of defects is glaring on the cover.

I got mine in my youth, I was an instant big Solar fan after scoring many Gold Keys in 4 for $1 bins circa 1990.  Sent my #10 in to CGC years back as I knew I had a shot at  9.8 but had been wrong about these type things before. It did grade at 9.8, glad I waited back in the day for the 2nd printing to read the book.

Solar 10 remains my favorite Valiant book, with Shadowman #1 second, Solar 1 third, then Magnus 1 and 12 forth and fifth,.  Harbinger never really did it for me same goes for X-O. The Boniface Shadowman being my favorite original Valiant character creation.

 

 

Edited by MAR1979
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On 7/29/2021 at 3:47 PM, MAR1979 said:

and the only Comic Book cover I can draw pencil and ink just as well as the original artist :)

 

Solar 10, like most Valiant,  there were a metric ton printed but look how few in percentage there are in CGC 9.8. Very, very difficult to score in 9.8 the only reason there are the 150 or so on the census is that thousands were submitted.  Even the tiniest of defects is glaring on the cover.

I got mine in my youth, I was an instant big Valiant Solar fan after scoring many Gold Keys is in 4 for $1 bins circa 1990.  Sent  my #10 in to CGC years back as I knew I had a shot at  9.8 but had been wrong about these type things before. It did grade at 9.8, glad I waited back in the day for the 2nd printing to read the book.

Solar 10 remains my favorite Valiant book, with Shadowman #1 second, Solar 1 third, then Magnus 1 and 12 forth and fifth,.  Harbinger never really did it for me same goes for X-O. The Boniface Shadowman being my favorite original Valiant character creation.

 

 

Solar 10 was at least a couple of months before Unity, when the print runs really exploded, so not quite "a metric ton," but certainly more than a lot of print runs today.

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On 7/30/2021 at 3:03 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Solar 10 was at least a couple of months before Unity, when the print runs really exploded, so not quite "a metric ton," but certainly more than a lot of print runs today.

To be fair, I'm sure they did weigh at least a metric ton. :grin:

More important than physical weight, Solar #10 had a "hefty" $3.95 cover price at a time when Amazing Spider-Man was $1.25, so Solar #10 wasn't expected to sell very well, yet the book had to go to a 2nd print (the only early Valiant to get a 2nd printing) about six months later due to demand.

Solar #10 might not be the #1 overall Valiant key issue, but it would be hard to have it reasonably listed outside the Top 3 or Top 5. (thumbsu

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On 8/2/2021 at 2:57 PM, valiantman said:

To be fair, I'm sure they did weigh at least a metric ton. :grin:

More important than physical weight, Solar #10 had a "hefty" $3.95 cover price at a time when Amazing Spider-Man was $1.25, so Solar #10 wasn't expected to sell very well, yet the book had to go to a 2nd print (the only early Valiant to get a 2nd printing) about six months later due to demand.

Solar #10 might not be the #1 overall Valiant key issue, but it would be hard to have it reasonably listed outside the Top 3 or Top 5. (thumbsu

For sure it's in that group in 9.8. Somewhere in the top 10 (if not in the top 5) for sure if we're considering all grades.

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On 8/3/2021 at 10:06 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:
On 8/2/2021 at 1:57 PM, valiantman said:

To be fair, I'm sure they did weigh at least a metric ton. :grin:

More important than physical weight, Solar #10 had a "hefty" $3.95 cover price at a time when Amazing Spider-Man was $1.25, so Solar #10 wasn't expected to sell very well, yet the book had to go to a 2nd print (the only early Valiant to get a 2nd printing) about six months later due to demand.

Solar #10 might not be the #1 overall Valiant key issue, but it would be hard to have it reasonably listed outside the Top 3 or Top 5. (thumbsu

For sure it's in that group in 9.8. Somewhere in the top 10 (if not in the top 5) for sure if we're considering all grades.

Another consideration (already mentioned) is the original cover price.  Since Solar #10 originally cost more than twice the Harbinger #1 price, you could say that CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 is still "more expensive" than CGC 9.8 Solar #10 up to the point that CGC 9.8 Solar #10 is twice the price of CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 (relative to the cover price).

(the classic time machine question) "Would you rather have $100 worth of Harbinger #1 at cover price or $100 worth of Solar #10 at cover price?" :grin:

Personally, I'd rather have $100 worth of Unity #0 Red at cover price.  After about 5,000 copies, I'd stop buying them at cover price and look for something else to buy with my leftover $100. :kidaround:

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Those of you who might have been collecting Valiant 20+ years ago on eBay (you know, last millennium) may remember that there was a time that the raw price for Solar #10 was about $8-$10, Harbinger #1 was about $8-$10, and Unity #0 Red was $25-$35.

Compared to CGC 9.8 Solar #10 and CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1, the CGC 9.8 Unity #0 Red is a bargain today.  They still sell for less than $300, despite having fewer CGC 9.8s than the other books.

Edited by valiantman
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