Welcome CGC to the world of pulps" CGC will be grading them. 6 6

[Bookery]

On 7/29/2021 at 12:43 AM, Randall Dowling said:

I would very much expect this if trimmed books end up in blue labels.  I understand the arguments both ways and frankly have mixed feelings about it myself.  I have pulps that aren't trimmed and it irritates me how much the overhang gets beaten up.  And I have pulps that are trimmed and present very well... but I know they were trimmed and I tend to prefer the untampered over the tampered, all other things being equal.  

But I think it's worth noting that if CGC decides to blue label trimmed books, a lot of pulps are going to get trimmed in the future.  I don't have any idea how to have an apples to apples comparison between a book with overhang that has a few creases but no chips and one that has 3 sides trimmed.  Does anyone else?  You can say that you hammer the grade on the trimmed book but if you have an overhang that looks like a nightmare, how does that get graded higher than a trimmed book?  

These are tough questions and, as with anything, letting the perfect be the mortal enemy of the good is counterproductive.  Still, I don't see any easy answers to a lot of these questions.

Actually, all teasing about the WT above aside, except for extreme examples, even in mylar bags the overhangs can usually be carefully tucked in, and in bag, at least, look perfectly fine.  And if done carefully, and the pulps not mishandled, I've had no problems with the overhang getting further damaged or breaking apart unless the paper was already brittle to begin with.  I'm assuming CGC will be able to do similarly for the inner wells in the slab, and it should offer even more protection than a mylar.  This would negate any visual benefit from trimming a pulp in order to try and get a higher grade.  

[ThothAmon]

On 7/28/2021 at 1:26 PM, Surfing Alien said:

Here's a disaster for slabbing, and I've seen quite a few others like it. I guess since it's one of the earlier, skinnier ones, it could possibly go into the wider well of the later issues, but it's gonna be dicey, no matter how you slice it, so to speak....

Marvel chipping?

[Funnybooks]

On 7/29/2021 at 12:45 PM, ThothAmon said:

Marvel chipping?

Dylan the Kid 8.0

[Surfing Alien]

On 7/29/2021 at 12:24 PM, Bookery said:

Actually, all teasing about the WT above aside, except for extreme examples, even in mylar bags the overhangs can usually be carefully tucked in, and in bag, at least, look perfectly fine.  And if done carefully, and the pulps not mishandled, I've had no problems with the overhang getting further damaged or breaking apart unless the paper was already brittle to begin with.  I'm assuming CGC will be able to do similarly for the inner wells in the slab, and it should offer even more protection than a mylar.  This would negate any visual benefit from trimming a pulp in order to try and get a higher grade.  

That pic was from when I first got it. Now that it has been *ahem* pressed in a mylar for many months I think it looks right purty 

[rjpb]

There seems to be pretty solid knowledge among collectors about which titles were factory trimmed starting when and on what edges, so lets hope whoever grades them for CGC has this knowledge. I have noticed some pulps to have a cover wrap on certain copies that lines up with the top, and might superficially look like trimming, but isn't. Then of course there is defacto trimming caused when enough of the overhang breaks off when the cover stock gets a bit brittle. What color label books get I'm not that concerned with as long as the trimming is noted and grade factored. As it is a lot of less experienced pulp sellers miss trimming all the time.

I'm curious as to how missing back covers will be graded, as this is pretty much a .5 for comics, but it's clear that pulp buyers are a bit more accepting of this perhaps more frequent flaw, and I typically see these sort of books graded in the FR to GD range by pulp sellers. Another factor is spine fading, which obviously impacts grade, but it's never been that clear to me that there is any universal agreement on just how. 

 

 

 

[jimjum12]

On 8/6/2021 at 5:55 PM, rjpb said:

I have noticed some pulps to have a cover wrap on certain copies that lines up with the top, and might superficially look like trimming, but isn't.

Fact Check .... TRUE. 

GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[waaaghboss]

Will they be recognizing the Yakima pedigree?

[Joshua33]

As an inexperienced pulp collector, can someone explain to me the difference in the spine between these 2 copies of the same issue? And how does this difference affect grading?

[RedFury]

The spine should be deep red.  The yellow one is extremely faded, most likely from sitting on a bookshelf in sunlight.  I don't know how CGC will account for it in grading.  Me, I still give the book the same grade but note the spine fading.  But as a collector I avoid spine fading.  I like the reds.

[Joshua33]

On 8/8/2021 at 3:19 PM, Joshua33 said:

copies

The yellow spine copy is actually the one that just sold at Comic Connect. I just hadn't seen that before, and wasn't sure how that should be accounted for, pertaining to grading. I know on a comic, it would get hammered for that much fading, even if only on the square bound portion of a particular book.

[rjpb]

On 8/8/2021 at 5:10 PM, RedFury said:

The spine should be deep red.  The yellow one is extremely faded, most likely from sitting on a bookshelf in sunlight.  I don't know how CGC will account for it in grading.  Me, I still give the book the same grade but note the spine fading.  But as a collector I avoid spine fading.  I like the reds.

I bought a WT with a faded yellow spine from Adventure House (which seems pretty solid on grading from my limited experience). It probably would have been graded a solid FN if not for the spine, but was give a Near Fine grade. That still seemed too generous to me considering the severity of the fade, and I called it a VG when selling (fully noting the spine issue).

[RedFury]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:22 AM, rjpb said:

I bought a WT with a faded yellow spine from Adventure House (which seems pretty solid on grading from my limited experience). It probably would have been graded a solid FN if not for the spine, but was give a Near Fine grade. That still seemed too generous to me considering the severity of the fade, and I called it a VG when selling (fully noting the spine issue).

Yeah, I should clarify that if it's mid- or low-grade I don't really adjust the grade for spine fading, other than noting it, but on an otherwise high-grade book I do knock it down.  But that's just me.  I wonder how CGC will handle?

[rjpb]

On 8/8/2021 at 6:00 PM, Joshua33 said:

The yellow spine copy is actually the one that just sold at Comic Connect. I just hadn't seen that before, and wasn't sure how that should be accounted for, pertaining to grading. I know on a comic, it would get hammered for that much fading, even if only on the square bound portion of a particular book.

I pretty sure ComicConnect doesn't really know how to fully account for flaws when grading pulps. I noticed they only used four grades in their big pulp auction, 2.0,4.0,6.0 and 8.0, avoiding having to make more discerning choices, which is kind of funny coming from a company that gives comics grades like 4.25 and 5.8.

[asimovpulps]

On 8/9/2021 at 7:25 AM, rjpb said:

I noticed they only used four grades in their big pulp auction, 2.0,4.0,6.0 and 8.0, avoiding having to make more discerning choices

Not only that, but a number of Pulps (rough guess 25-40% of the ones I was eyeing) didn't include pictures of the back or spine, which made it impossible to gut check the grade.

I know spines aren't easy to scan but as @RedFurysaid it matters a lot more when you're attaching an 8.0 to a pulp which very rarely appears in 6.0+. I ended up not bidding on a number of books because I didn't feel comfortable with the scans....

...though I ended up not winning a number of books because they went for 2-3x what I wanted to pay... 

 

[jimjum12]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:10 PM, RedFury said:

The spine should be deep red.  The yellow one is extremely faded, most likely from sitting on a bookshelf in sunlight.  I don't know how CGC will account for it in grading.  Me, I still give the book the same grade but note the spine fading.  But as a collector I avoid spine fading.  I like the reds.

Ultimately, I think it will affect the grade.... I try to use logic when deciphering grading parameters... If it wasn't faded when the bundle was tossed off the back of the truck, it should be precluded from anything that starts with a "9" ... but that's just my vote. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jimjum12]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:51 AM, asimovpulps said:

Not only that, but a number of Pulps (rough guess 25-40% of the ones I was eyeing) didn't include pictures of the back or spine, which made it impossible to gut check the grade.

I know spines aren't easy to scan but as @RedFurysaid it matters a lot more when you're attaching an 8.0 to a pulp which very rarely appears in 6.0+. I ended up not bidding on a number of books because I didn't feel comfortable with the scans....

...though I ended up not winning a number of books because they went for 2-3x what I wanted to pay... 

 

 

You should email or call Metro, as this is a very valid concern. Sometimes the squeeky wheel gets the grease.... and then, sometimes we don't get the meat, just the bone. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[rjpb]

On 8/9/2021 at 8:02 AM, jimjum12 said:

You should email or call Metro, as this is a very valid concern. Sometimes the squeeky wheel gets the grease.... and then, sometimes we don't get the meat, just the bone. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Metro was doing outreach on this auction to winners in previous pulp auctions, so presumably they should be receptive. As it was a few months ago I emailed them about obvious, but unnoted trimming on a pulp they had up for auction, and got a response that they would pass it on to their grading team, but they never changed the listing. Even if they don't provide a picture of the spine, they should include a brief description. Page quality is another item rarely mentioned in their auctions. This bothers me when people sell comic books as well, but tan pages and brittle edges are far more common with pulps, and when there are no pictures or descriptions, I tend to assume the page quality has a good chance of being inferior.

[Bookery]

On 8/8/2021 at 9:00 PM, Joshua33 said:

The yellow spine copy is actually the one that just sold at Comic Connect. I just hadn't seen that before, and wasn't sure how that should be accounted for, pertaining to grading. I know on a comic, it would get hammered for that much fading, even if only on the square bound portion of a particular book.

It used to be common to store pulps upright on a bookshelf like a book.  Years of sunlight coming through windows would often fade the spines, leaving the rest of the cover looking fresh.  However, Weird Tales are perhaps the worst of all pulps for this effect.  The red ink they used was apparently very unstable and easily oxidized.

[jimjum12]

This is a Pulp oriented reference point .... but I would be VERY reluctant to pay "Fine Money" for a faded spine... GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jimjum12]

This is what the spine of a red colored Weird Tales should look like .... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)