Serious eBay CGC issue not to be overlooked 3 3

[Lazyboy]

Let me be clear. In the transaction between the buyer and the seller, the seller is solely responsible for the item being represented properly. The seller may be able to turn around and find another party who is responsible to them, but they are not relevant to the transaction between the buyer and the seller. The buyer cannot be responsible for the item being misrepresented and should take any and all actions necessary to avoid getting by something that is someone else's problem.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:08 PM, rjpb said:

f you crack it out and disagree, or even if CGC comes up with a different grade or designation on resub, that's not the seller's problem, that's your problem (or possibly to your benefit), and maybe CGC's if you can convince them they really blew it.

Right. What if the book came back green? Or blue? A buyer would be rubbing their hands with glee. Haha. That stupid seller. Haha. Stupid 2003 CGC. I win! They lose!

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:42 PM, Lazyboy said:

Let me be clear. In the transaction between the buyer and the seller, the seller is solely responsible for the item being represented properly. The seller may be able to turn around and find another party who is responsible to them, but they are not relevant to the transaction between the buyer and the seller. The buyer cannot be responsible for the item being misrepresented and should take any and all actions necessary to avoid getting by something that is someone else's problem.

Nope. Especially in this case, you are completely wrong. Per eBay:

Misuse of returns or the eBay Money Back Guarantee

• Activity that is not allowed includes, but is not limited to:

• Opening duplicate requests using other buyer protection programs
• Colluding with a seller to wrongly declare an item's value for customs
• Filing a chargeback after receiving a refund
• Claiming an item was not received when there is proof of delivery to the buyer's address on the Order Details
• Falsely claiming an item was not as described
• Returning an item other than the original item received
• Using or damaging an item and then returning it

Both of those apply here. Item was exactly as described. 

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:51 PM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

Nope. Especially in this case, you are completely wrong. Per eBay:

Misuse of returns or the eBay Money Back Guarantee

• Activity that is not allowed includes, but is not limited to:

• Opening duplicate requests using other buyer protection programs
• Colluding with a seller to wrongly declare an item's value for customs
• Filing a chargeback after receiving a refund
• Claiming an item was not received when there is proof of delivery to the buyer's address on the Order Details
• Falsely claiming an item was not as described
• Returning an item other than the original item received
• Using or damaging an item and then returning it

Both of those apply here. Item was exactly as described. 

You are completely divorced from reality. The real item is the comic, which has pieces added that were not disclosed. Not as described! The item was not used or damaged. If anything, it was fixed.

Also, when did you see the listing for the book to make all these definite statements about the item being exactly as described? Just curious.

Anyway, what I've learned from this thread is to never, ever buy a CGC-graded comic and to never buy from certain people.

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:55 PM, Lazyboy said:

You are completely divorced from reality. The real item is the comic, which has pieces added that were not disclosed. Not as described! The item was not used or damaged. If anything, it was fixed.

Also, when did you see the listing for the book to make all these definite statements about the item being exactly as described? Just curious.

Anyway, what I've learned from this thread is to never, ever buy a CGC-graded comic and to never buy from certain people.

I disagree. I don't think you've learned anything from this thread 

[Eric Perry]

CGC evaluated and encapsulated the book.

When seller listed the book, it was still encapsulated.

When buyer received the book, it was still encapsulated.

Buyer chose to remove the book, so it was no longer encapsulated.

In my opinion, neither seller nor CGC should be held responsible for anything beyond this point.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:10 AM, G G ® ™ said:

Number of things here that don't sit right with me, most have been covered. Most troubling is buying a slabbed book, cracking it and re-submitting in the hope of finding fault, when you are supposed to love raw.

 Did you read the OP? The buyer wanted a comic and figured the CGC-graded copy available on feebay would be acceptable. After cracking it with the intent to keep it, the buyer noticed that something seemed off and decided to have it looked at. Liking comics rather than plastic doesn't mean you like not getting what you thought you were getting and paid for.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:17 PM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

I disagree. I don't think you've learned anything from this thread 

That's okay, I'm not sure you've ever learned anything. Except maybe how to be sleazy and avoid taking responsibility.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:49 PM, Eric Perry said:

CGC evaluated and encapsulated the book.

When seller listed the book, it was still encapsulated.

When buyer received the book, it was still encapsulated.

Buyer chose to remove the book, so it was no longer encapsulated.

In my opinion, neither seller nor CGC should be held responsible for anything beyond this point.

So the buyer gets just because they wanted a comic? How is the buyer responsible for the misrepresented state of the comic?

Also, the book is now encapsulated and can almost certainly be proven to be the same book. The only "problem" now is that it is more difficult to misrepresent.

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:52 PM, Lazyboy said:

That's okay, I'm not sure you've ever learned anything. Except maybe how to be sleazy and avoid taking responsibility.

I've learned that you don't understand what 3rd party grading is. Amazing how everyone else in this thread sees it for what it is. Then there's you. 

Geez, it's been explained so clearly, by multiple people, I really can't believe you don't understand it. You have to be trolling. No one is this dense.

[Eric Perry]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:57 PM, Lazyboy said:

...How is the buyer responsible...

The buyer removed the book from its holder.  They could have sent the book - still encapsulated - to CGC for review.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 8/4/2021 at 2:50 AM, Lazyboy said:

 Did you read the OP? The buyer wanted a comic and figured the CGC-graded copy available on feebay would be acceptable. After cracking it with the intent to keep it, the buyer noticed that something seemed off and decided to have it looked at. Liking comics rather than plastic doesn't mean you like not getting what you thought you were getting and paid for.

You seem to have a real bug up your arse because people have a differing opinion than your own.

It's quite simple: If a seller sells a slab, he is selling an unknown quantity UNLESS he had the book slabbed himself and KNOWS there to be a serious issue which he decides not to disclose in a future sale.

The vast majority of sellers selling slabs are merely passing on that book/cgc opinion to someone else without any prior knowledge of what's inside.

The buyer's antics here I find questionable, that is my opinion.

I don't believe the buyer is at fault, but neither is the seller PERIOD.

Even CGC cannot be held to book, because they have a clear disclaimer on their product....i.e. IT'S AN OPINION OF GRADE!

Don't get so excited.

 

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:01 PM, Eric Perry said:

The buyer removed the book from its holder.  They could have sent the book - still encapsulated - to CGC for review.

It is impossible to properly examine a comic through a slab. You can have a fairly, or even very, good idea about some things, but some things you'll never even be able to guess without a proper examination.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:13 AM, Lazyboy said:

It is impossible to properly examine a comic through a slab. You can have a fairly, or even very, good idea about some things, but some things you'll never even be able to guess without a proper examination.

The points you are forgetting are these;

1. A buyer buys a book in a slab....if he cracks it out he has forfeited the right to a return, simply because it was sold in an encapsulated state. All bets are off when it's cracked out.

2. In your world a buyer could crack out a book, then at some future time, or even immediately decide to re slab, say it comes back a grade lower? Is the seller then to be held responsible?

I think not.

Then there are the variables of damaging the book's integrity himself in the process of cracking or future handling.

Conclusion:

If you buy a slab, leave it in there. If you crack it, the pandora's box you may find is then on you, because you have invalidated the CGC guarantee.

Moral: If you don't like the odds, stick to buying raw.

That is all.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:02 PM, G G ® ™ said:

The vast majority of sellers selling slabs are merely passing on that book/cgc opinion to someone else without any prior knowledge of what's inside.

So what happens when a significant, undisclosed problem is discovered in a slab? The buyer just gets ? Then what's the point of third-party grading? It seems like that would just be like the bad old days that so many complain about.

On 8/3/2021 at 9:02 PM, G G ® ™ said:

I don't believe the buyer is at fault, but neither is the seller PERIOD.

Again, if the seller isn't at fault, it is still their responsibility to take it up with the person who is, or at least the person they got it from.

On 8/3/2021 at 9:02 PM, G G ® ™ said:

Even CGC cannot be held to book, because they have a clear disclaimer on their product....i.e. IT'S AN OPINION OF GRADE!

Again, the grading opinion is not the problem. Factual misrepresentation is a problem.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:23 AM, Lazyboy said:

On 8/4/2021 at 3:02 AM, G G ® ™ said:

The vast majority of sellers selling slabs are merely passing on that book/cgc opinion to someone else without any prior knowledge of what's inside.

So what happens when a significant, undisclosed problem is discovered in a slab? The buyer just gets ? Then what's the point of third-party grading? It seems like that would just be like the bad old days that so many complain about.

On 8/4/2021 at 3:02 AM, G G ® ™ said:

I don't believe the buyer is at fault, but neither is the seller PERIOD.

Again, if the seller isn't at fault, it is still their responsibility to take it up with the person who is, or at least the person they got it from.

On 8/4/2021 at 3:02 AM, G G ® ™ said:

Even CGC cannot be held to book, because they have a clear disclaimer on their product....i.e. IT'S AN OPINION OF GRADE!

Again, the grading opinion is not the problem. Factual misrepresentation is a problem.

You are arguing points from a Utopian perspective. We are living in an imperfect world where mistakes are made, and CGC make mistakes all the time. I've cracked too many books in my time not to know this.

You ask what's the point of 3rd party grading. That depends on what you want from it. Some people aren't interested in the books. They chase labels. Personally I like the books I love to be preserved from future damage and deterioration, but I like raw too. I don't buy for money. I buy for the love of the book. But some people buy for profit etc. and there's nothing wrong with that. You expect all 3rd party books to be above reproach?, think again.

What if a seller sells on a book he bought years ago, and can't remember the details, what's he supposed to do? Your argument here is completely unrealistic and very naive at best.

Factual representation doesn't come into it if the book is slabbed, because the slab is subjectively graded by a human being giving their opinion.

If you buy a raw from someone who says the book is complete, and three pages are missing...that is CLEAR factual misrepresentation and is not up for debate.

Given your idealistic thinking on how slabs should be, I suggest you honestly should stick to raw.

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:40 PM, G G ® ™ said:

You are arguing points from a Utopian perspective. We are living in an imperfect world where mistakes are made, and CGC make mistakes all the time. I've cracked too many books in my time not to know this.

You ask what's the point of 3rd party grading. That depends on what you want from it. Some people aren't interested in the books. They chase labels. Personally I like the books I love to be preserved from future damage and deterioration, but I like raw too. I don't buy for money. I buy for the love of the book. But some people buy for profit etc. and there's nothing wrong with that. You expect all 3rd party books to be above reproach?, think again.

What if a seller sells on a book he bought years ago, and can't remember the details, what's he supposed to do? Your argument here is completely unrealistic and very naive at best.

Factual representation doesn't come into it if the book is slabbed, because the slab is subjectively graded by a human being giving their opinion.

If you buy a raw from someone who says the book is complete, and three pages are missing...that is CLEAR factual misrepresentation and is not up for debate.

Given your idealistic thinking on how slabs should be, I suggest you honestly should stick to raw.

 

Guess you're up next bud. Here, you're gonna need this....

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:40 PM, G G ® ™ said:

You expect all 3rd party books to be above reproach?

No, I expect good sellers to fix problems.

On 8/3/2021 at 9:40 PM, G G ® ™ said:

What if a seller sells on a book he bought years ago, and can't remember the details, what's he supposed to do?

That would be their problem. It certainly isn't the buyer's

On 8/3/2021 at 9:40 PM, G G ® ™ said:

If you buy a raw from someone who says the book is complete, and three pages are missing...that is CLEAR factual misrepresentation and is not up for debate.

Yeah. What if you buy a slab, crack it for your collection, and discover that the centerfold is missing (which was not noted)? Where's the debate there?

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:51 AM, Lazyboy said:

Yeah. What if you buy a slab, crack it for your collection, and discover that the centerfold is missing (which was not noted)? Where's the debate there?

Then you politely take it up with CGC, as others have stated logically in this thread.

If the seller slabbed the book himself and knows the grading to be wrong, then you have a case, otherwise you have less legs to stand on than a one legged man in an arse kicking contest.

And with that I'm out.

[divad]

It's been happening for decades now.