Serious eBay CGC issue not to be overlooked 3 3

[Randall Ries]

[B2D327]

This all reminds me of a debate that went on in a fb group about one of cgc’ s competitors being notorious for missing page counts, cut outs and other internal flaws in grading that were immediately detected when submitted to cgc either removed from the competitor’s slab or not. 
   As none of the sellers were responsible for the grades originally given before resubmitting to cgc, responsibility should fall to the original grading company for the errors made in final grading.

   In this case, I can’t see the seller losing because upon return, he’s not receiving the same item he sent the buyer as the label will have changed significantly not matching the product he sent the buyer, therefore receiving an item altered by the buyer. Having gone through this myself with buyers on more than one occasion, once this evidence was presented to eBay, I was vindicated in every case with the feedback to prove it.

[The Lions Den]

On 8/10/2021 at 4:02 PM, Randall Ries said:

First, let me say that I like the look of these books---very nice looking copies. So I can understand why you'd think CGC was being tough on the grade. And I'm not suggesting that's impossible either. I've seen numerous examples of that, too. 

But since we don't have any grading notes, there are a few things I'll mention that could be a possibility why they were graded 7.5:  

1)  Since these books are sig series, it does make me wonder if something happened during the signing process. I've read about quite a few instances of this happening, and 7.5 is a fairly typical grade for a really nice book with a couple of more noticeable flaws (like heavy impact dents or finger bends). And make no mistake, the holder and inner well can disguise even fairly serious flaws.

2) The flaw or flaws are on the interior of the book and are impossible to see unless the book is opened. I've seen examples where the pages exhibit light stains (similar to foxing stains) and over time they transfer those stains to the interior cover. This particular flaw wouldn't affect the page quality designation, either. However, something like that should be in the notes.

3)  There are numerous small flaws or wear to the cover which doesn't break color. Again, tough to see in the holder but very easy to see when the book is out of the holder. 

4)  A small tear somewhere on the cover which is basically invisible when encapsulated. No matter how beautiful the book is, a small tear like the one I'm referring to (about 1/4" inch long) will nearly always knock the book down into the VF range. 

5)  A light pattern of small stains across the cover which can only be seen when holding the book at an angle. I've seen numerous books with a flaw like this grade in the 7.0 - 7.5 range. 

Anyway, I hope this gives you some food for thought and thanks for posting these copies. They're certainly attractive and they'd make nice additions to just about anyone's collection...   

Edited August 12, 2021 by The Lions Den

[Randall Ries]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:36 PM, The Lions Den said:

First, let me say that I like the look of these books---very nice looking copies. So I can understand why you'd think CGC was being tough on the grade. And I'm not suggesting that's impossible either. I've seen numerous examples of that, too. 

But since we don't have any grading notes, there are a few things I'll mention that could be a possibility why they were graded 7.5:  

1)  Since these books are sig series, it does make me wonder if something happened during the signing process. I've read about quite a few instances of this happening, and 7.5 is a fairly typical grade for a really nice book with a couple of more noticeable flaws (like heavy impact dents or finger bends). And make no mistake, the holder and inner well can disguise even fairly serious flaws.

2) The flaw or flaws are on the interior of the book and are impossible to see unless the book is opened. I've seen examples where the pages exhibit light stains (similar to foxing stains) and over time they transfer those stains to the interior cover. This particular flaw wouldn't affect the page quality designation, either. However, something like that should be in the notes.

3)  There are numerous small flaws or wear to the cover which doesn't break color. Again, tough to see in the holder but very easy to see when the book is out of the holder. 

4)  A small tear somewhere on the cover which is basically invisible when encapsulated. No matter how beautiful the book is, a small tear like the one I'm referring to (about 1/4" inch long) will nearly always knock the book down into the VF range. 

5)  A light pattern of small stains across the cover which can only be seen when holding the book at an angle. I've seen numerous books with a flaw like this grade in the 7.0 - 7.5 range. 

Anyway, I hope this gives you some food for thought and thanks for posting these copies. They're certainly attractive and they'd make nice additions to just about anyone's collection...   

Thanks for that. it is certainly something to consider. I mean, I have looked at the books from all angles and they are at least flawless on the outside.

[The Lions Den]

On 8/12/2021 at 8:50 PM, Randall Ries said:

Thanks for that. it is certainly something to consider. I mean, I have looked at the books from all angles and they are at least flawless on the outside.

You're welcome...  

[Falcon760]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:36 PM, The Lions Den said:

First, let me say that I like the look of these books---very nice looking copies. So I can understand why you'd think CGC was being tough on the grade. And I'm not suggesting that's impossible either. I've seen numerous examples of that, too. 

But since we don't have any grading notes, there are a few things I'll mention that could be a possibility why they were graded 7.5:  

1)  Since these books are sig series, it does make me wonder if something happened during the signing process. I've read about quite a few instances of this happening, and 7.5 is a fairly typical grade for a really nice book with a couple of more noticeable flaws (like heavy impact dents or finger bends). And make no mistake, the holder and inner well can disguise even fairly serious flaws.

2) The flaw or flaws are on the interior of the book and are impossible to see unless the book is opened. I've seen examples where the pages exhibit light stains (similar to foxing stains) and over time they transfer those stains to the interior cover. This particular flaw wouldn't affect the page quality designation, either. However, something like that should be in the notes.

3)  There are numerous small flaws or wear to the cover which doesn't break color. Again, tough to see in the holder but very easy to see when the book is out of the holder. 

4)  A small tear somewhere on the cover which is basically invisible when encapsulated. No matter how beautiful the book is, a small tear like the one I'm referring to (about 1/4" inch long) will nearly always knock the book down into the VF range. 

5)  A light pattern of small stains across the cover which can only be seen when holding the book at an angle. I've seen numerous books with a flaw like this grade in the 7.0 - 7.5 range. 

Anyway, I hope this gives you some food for thought and thanks for posting these copies. They're certainly attractive and they'd make nice additions to just about anyone's collection...   

Tear on the bottom?  What do you mean you can't see it?  Or is that dust?

[Groovinup]

Hello

I have a question about a particular type of cover stain.  I'm familiar with most stains, be it foxing, oil, dirt, moisture, etc.  I just bought a beautiful Detective Comics bronze age book.  You can't see any stains on it's cover pictures, and it looks NM.  However, it has somewhat translucent speckled stains all over the front and back covers.  I can hold it 12" from my eyes and not see the spots.  I have to put my reader glasses on, and slightly bend the cover to see them, as they are almost invisible.  I'm thinking they might be gloss stains from the manufacturing process.  Has anyone else seen this type of defect?

[The Lions Den]

On 8/13/2021 at 11:27 AM, Falcon760 said:

Tear on the bottom?  What do you mean you can't see it?  Or is that dust?

Yes, that does look like a small tear, doesn't it? Of course, it also looks like it could be a tiny paper particle... 

The type of tear I was referring to in my previous comment would be about twice that length and nearly impossible to see in the holder...