How many HULK 181s were actually printed in 1974? How many do you think have survived to date? 1 1

[Roger66]

Hi 

From some research I have done I believe there was close to 350,000 to 400,000 copies printed in 1974 of this glorious key.   My best guess and using intuition - I suspect the total amount of surviving copies in the world today (talking blue label graded and raw and excluding all incomplete copies, including missing MVS and restored) is maybe 50,000 population copies now.  Keeping in mind the CGC Census reflects under 12k copies (universal) and of course does not cover the other grading companies copies or raw copies, which is tough to figure since you would imagine most raw copies would be graded. 

I would love to hear from anyone, who might have more specific knowledge if not a better understanding of how Marvel Comics published in the 1970s and their personal viewpoint on the potential surviving population of this iconic yet common KEY.  

Roger

Edited August 30, 2021 by Roger66

[steveinthecity]

 

[Lazyboy]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:54 PM, Roger66 said:

you would imagine most raw copies would be graded

I certainly would not.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/30/2021 at 8:52 PM, Lazyboy said:

I certainly would not.

Me either. Lots of copies in collections ungraded. Grading isn't the end-all-be-all to everyone. I am grateful to have zero interest in this book.

[LowGradeBronze]

On 8/30/2021 at 9:54 PM, Roger66 said:

Hi 

I would love to hear from anyone, who might have more specific knowledge if not a better understanding of how Marvel Comics published in the 1970s and their personal viewpoint on the potential surviving population of this iconic yet common KEY.  

Roger

Hulk 187 has the print run stats (statement of circulation,) so that would shed some light on typical print runs and have specific data on the issue closest to the filing date. The leftover, spoiled, & newsstand returns is always a frightening figure, sometimes in the hundreds of thousands, as much as one third of the entire print run. What happened to all those comics? Were they all pulped?

In fact it's pretty weird to think that many of the comics in our collections are reincarnations of other, earlier issues, having been pulped and re-made into newsprint. I wonder if any DCs ended up as Marvels and vice versa???

As I don't have IH 187 I can't tell you what those stats are and how they may be able to infer how many IH 181s might be around, but it's a good starting point. (I went on to MCS and scrolled through IH until I saw that IH 187 has the print run stats. It's a great resource.) 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by LowGradeBronze
Removed factually incorrect comment re GSXM

[steveinthecity]

Here’s the statement of ownership from the letters page of #187:

[LowGradeBronze]

s Excellent, @steveinthecity

B,1 ... Paid Circulation: Sales through dealers & carriers, street vendors & counter sales 202,000.

D,2...Copies distributed to newsagents but not sold: 167,000 

There's the bulk of your total print run but the burning question (from the OP's POV,) is how many of those appx 167,000 made it to warehouses to wait it out until they could feed the collector market in high grades. How many turn up with distributors ink? A good indication of how many survived the returns process, (which I confess I can shed no light on.) 

Think back to all the Howard Rogovski type ads in the comics, where people were offering "Complete Marvel and DC back catalog, 1940s to 1970s" and where were they getting their stock from? I suspect there was a better market in taking unsold returns and selling them to the Howard Rogovskis of this world rather than taking them to be pulped. So we can start speculating on what proportion of appx 167,000 books survived, on top of the sold 202,000 copies. I'm starting to think a decent proportion, maybe more than 50% of 167,000. 

I certainly think that comic books from 1974 have much better in built survivability than books from 10 years earlier. A lot of my admittedly low grade early 60s books are hanging on by the skin of their teeth: Tanning, brittleness, spine wear to the point of falling apart, whereas my 1970s books are made of better stuff, literally. The covers and interiors are better quality materials. Add that in to the mix. (Although a mid 60s FF I looked at the other day with statement of circulation showed a total print run in excess of 600,000. That blew my mind a bit.)

Edited September 2, 2021 by LowGradeBronze

[LowGradeBronze]

https://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg70.html

Gets very interesting from second paragraph and explains what should have happened and what actually happened (!) to a lot of comics in the sale or return process.

(In fact the whole thing's interesting, but this bit bears directly on our case in point: How many returns might have survived and why. )

[divad]

A zillion . . . a couple-two, three. 

[Hulksdaddy1]

[comicginger1789]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:12 PM, Randall Ries said:

Me either. Lots of copies in collections ungraded. Grading isn't the end-all-be-all to everyone. I am grateful to have zero interest in this book.

I also have little interest in this book. Happily have sold it a couple times to fund what I believe are much better books

As for how many are out there, enough that if you want one and have the money, you can have it. And probably a LOT in personal collections ungraded and a fair handful in collections unbeknowst by their owners that they have the value that they do now.