It appears that WATA and Heritage are colluding to pump up the graded videogame market. What are the implications for OA? 3 3

[Bronty]

[exitmusicblue]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, Ted_L said:

I don't disagree with you here and it's pretty obvious that dealers have been artificially pumping up the market by trading pieces back and forth.  However, I do think the nature of original art makes it much harder for pure investors to make a quick buck.  There's just not enough high level inventory for Heritage and other venues to make the same kind of money as with mass produced graded collectibles.  There's obviously some dealers/collectors doing really well these days, but at least these are people who've been in the hobby for years and not just jumping in now to pump and dump.

Regarding the hidden art out there, I do think a lot is the result of black hole collectors, artists such as Simonson, Austin and others keeping a lot of their art and people who were given art years ago who don't really know what they have.  I think there's also a certain amount of fear on the part of silver age collectors that the Kirby, Ditko or other estates might try to come for their artwork with questionable provenance, so a lot of this art has been kept private.  

 

Well-put, well-put.

Would be nice (as a buyer) if a scandal or two could put a serious dent in prices, for once.   Alas... 

In recent years was a huuuge grading scandal in the sports card world involving PSA (the CGC of cards).  Barely moved the needle back before more momentum skywards.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:39 PM, exitmusicblue said:

Well-put, well-put.

Would be nice (as a buyer) if a scandal or two could put a serious dent in prices, for once.   Alas... 

In recent years was a huuuge grading scandal in the sports card world involving PSA (the CGC of cards).  Barely moved the needle back before more momentum skywards.

you thinking of this or something else?

 

Former Owner Of Mastro Auctions Sentenced To 20 Months In Federal Prison In Shill-Bidding Scam | USAO-NDIL | Department of Justice

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:10 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

you thinking of this or something else?

 

 

2 years ago, not 20 years ago.   Widespread microtrimming.   Similar to Jason Ewert allegations in comics.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bronty

[jjonahjameson11]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:19 PM, Bronty said:

2 years ago, not 20 years ago.   Widespread microtrimming.   Similar to Jason Ewert allegations in comics.

ah, yes.  I remember the Jason Ewart micro-trimming scandal.

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:22 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

ah, yes.  I remember the Jason Ewart micro-trimming scandal.

That's one of the nice things about art right?    No BS with condition, crack and regrade, restoration, whatever else.    Just the item, one of a kind and ready to enjoy without further manipulation (mostly anyways).

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bronty

[stinkininkin]

On 9/7/2021 at 2:42 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I don’t think you are fairly evaluating “all the second rate stuff”. While good pages do sell pretty quickly, some of that other stuff, published at least, can be very good but not by a popular artist, or a piece that simply exceeds the typical quality of a mediocre artist. As for Kirby, he had his bad days, too, including those in the 1970’s. I almost never buy anything over 2k, unless it is really special, but to me, it is a sunk cost which is never to be recovered by a sale in any event. I search hard for my little treasures and don’t plan on letting them go.

Regarding the auction sites, absolutely be careful. I’ve been torched before when I used the word “shill”, but that’s not the only way to keep prices artificially high. Dealers dealing with dealers, dueling or otherwise, is definitely kicking up prices. But “where the market seems to be” is why shilling and bid-rigging work. They set where the market “seems to be”. I cannot justify the pricing for Richard Dillin, so he’s not in my little pile of stuff, even though pricing these days is where the market seems to be. So, as long as you keep buying your area of interest, you’re just feeding the furnace. And that is what I expect a lot of people will continue to do.

God, if I could find anything...A N Y T H I N G...that I truly wanted for 2k or less, I would be the happiest boy in the world.

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:51 PM, stinkininkin said:

God, if I could find anything...A N Y T H I N G...that I truly wanted for 2k or less, I would be the happiest boy in the world.

I blame the artists.   Specifically, the greedy inkers 😂 

[Rick2you2]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:51 PM, stinkininkin said:

God, if I could find anything...A N Y T H I N G...that I truly wanted for 2k or less, I would be the happiest boy in the world.

We have different standards. Try finding any Phantom Stranger art, and see what I mean. Except for Adams and some Aparo covers, most of it is below 2k, plus or minus. I have blown over 2k on occasion, but it is rare.

Also, I think we have different points of view. You’re a professional and look at things with a “fine eye”. I’m just a hobbyist who likes looking at different styles. What I like may not be up to your level of technical expertise. I probably give more credit to story content, too (hope I’m not being presumptuous).

To me, all of these pieces are just toys for grownups and membership into a club. That’s the best part.

 

[batman_fan]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:28 PM, Bronty said:

That's one of the nice things about art right?    No BS with condition, crack and regrade, restoration, whatever else.    Just the item, one of a kind and ready to enjoy without further manipulation (mostly anyways).

That’s a beautiful piece !  

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:07 PM, Rick2you2 said:

We have different standards. Try finding any Phantom Stranger art, and see what I mean. Except for Adams and some Aparo covers, most of it is below 2k, plus or minus. I have blown over 2k on occasion, but it is rare.

Also, I think we have different points of view. You’re a professional and look at things with a “fine eye”. I’m just a hobbyist who likes looking at different styles. What I like may not be up to your level of technical expertise. I probably give more credit to story content, too (hope I’m not being presumptuous).

To me, all of these pieces are just toys for grownups and membership into a club. That’s the best part.

 

So you’re saying he has taste and you don’t  😂 

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:09 PM, batman_fan said:

That’s a beautiful piece !  

Thanks brother.    It was under the magic 2k mark too!     Err of course that was many years ago

[Rick2you2]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:09 PM, Bronty said:

So you’re saying he has taste and you don’t  😂 

Pretty much. I don’t buy grand cru wines, either. Not worth the money.

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:12 PM, Rick2you2 said:

Pretty much. I don’t buy grand cru wines, either. Not worth the money.

Grand cru sounds like Grand Price!   
 

I prefer Italian wines anyways so I don’t think I’ve ever had one to judge.    Now I want to try one    Next I’ll be buying a Dillon PS page! 

[batman_fan]

On 9/7/2021 at 4:10 PM, Bronty said:

Thanks brother.    It was under the magic 2k mark too!     Err of course that was many years ago

I suspect it would be valued at the price of a decent car these days !

[Hockeyflow33]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:51 PM, stinkininkin said:

God, if I could find anything...A N Y T H I N G...that I truly wanted for 2k or less, I would be the happiest boy in the world.

Come slum it in the under $300/page group. We're the Morlocks of OA

[batman_fan]

On 9/7/2021 at 4:22 PM, Hockeyflow33 said:

Come slum it in the under $300/page group. We're the Morlocks of OA

I paid under $100 for each of these, they are more expensive now but definitely way under $2k and probably less than $300.  I know these don’t float everyone’s boat but that darn Marmaduke, what will he do next 

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:22 PM, batman_fan said:

I suspect it would be valued at the price of a decent car these days !

I hope not or I’ll be sad.    Just a sealed copy of the game would be the price of a new car. 

[Bronty]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:27 PM, batman_fan said:

I paid under $100 for each of these, they are more expensive now but definitely way under $2k and probably less than $300.  I know these don’t float everyone’s boat but that darn Marmaduke, what will he do next 

I love those!    

[batman_fan]

On 9/7/2021 at 4:30 PM, Bronty said:

I hope not or I’ll be sad.    Just a sealed copy of the game would be the price of a new car. 

What if said car was a Bugatti