Signed the Agreement to the new "Damage may occur" Clause; Little did I know... 1 1

[MCF335]

 

 

 

 

To quote John Lennon; "I should have known better" when I saw that new "SMALL PRINT" disclaimer pop up which one is now required to agree with in order to proceed with submissions; Case you didn't notice, it basically states that any damage that might occur in the handling of one's books for either signing or re-holdering could result in a LOWER GRADE; Not CGC's Responsibility.... ARGH!?!

 

I received one of my Mark Bagley. S.S. shipments of these valuable Newsstand Puppies finding SEVEN out of this 25-count box

with BADLY DINGED CORNERS.

Having been a Collector since the 1950's, I KNOW ( from my own many accidents;-} what a dropped, corner-dinged comic looks like!

Also worth mentioning is the CONTINUITY of the CGC Cert. numbers; 

Ending in 1002,1003,1016, 1017, 1021,1022,1023. 

These were ALL 9.8 TO 9.6 AT THE WORST. Bought hand-picked brand new from my Distributor's box, these specimens were meticulously

bagged/boarded,stored for Decades and finally inspected, re-bagged in those fancy yellow window sleeves CGC now sells.

Very carefully, securely bundled & taped in 5-count per padded mailers by Yours Truly; ALONE.

As the Late Great Legend Stan Lee is my Witness; NONE OF THESE had ANY impact at the corners.

Alas; These corner dings from either "NEWBIE" Employees or Folks simply moving WAY TOO FAST lowered the grade as low as an 8.5!

To wrap this up; These 7 ASM #362 Low-print-run Newsstand Puppies (almost a third of this box;-{) WOULD HAVE GRADE HIGHER & SOLD FOR

CONSIDERABLY MORE to Avid Comic Collectors WITHOUT ANY Signature present.

After spending THOUSANDS OF BUCKS here; It's an understatement to say I will carefully reconsider any further involvement

with CGC's Signature Series going forward. Truth Be Known; If no amelioration is offered for this DREADFUL S.N.A.F.U., I will

most likely pass on Future Signing Events. 

I'll contact Ms. McManus shortly with my photos ( attached is a pic of the very worst two submissions; Pressing won't help these two. )

Brittany has been very kind & generous with my issues in the Past; Hopefully, she will once again, offer some helpful solution.

Please join in on this BUMMER of an Experience with your own Sad Stories, as; IN NUMBERS THERE IS STRENGHT!

To be sure; I 'll let ya know what's up once I make Contact!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DaveSFU]

I had this some thing happen to four high grade all easily 9.2+ copies of X-Men 101, one had a strong shot at 9.8.    All came back 7.0 - 8.5 with the same exact damage to each one.   Luckily i had hi res photos of the books prior to sending them in.   Even after re-pressing and regrading the best one only got to 9.4, and the rest 8.5, 8.5, 9.0.  

[MCF335]

UPDATE; I contacted Brittany to which she replied that the damage did NOT happen at the signing Event; To whit; Not one book was dropped. I BELIEVE Brittany; When one gets to 70+ age Young, experiences finally

provide one with an Intuitive awareness as to who is Honest & who is not. Brittany is a very sincere Human (rare these days;-} who is a Credit to CGC Staff. I will soon make it known that I accept her statements as true.

That being said, I can only surmise that those fancy Window bags might have exacerbated at bit of "sloshing around in-transit, as I have yet to have this corner-dinging occur when packing sans window bags.

For example; My 65+ SPAWN #1's signed by T.M. in 2019 were in bags of my own design; Practically ALL of them were graded 9.8. If anyone else has had this experience with those (to quote Sabretooth, "OOOH, SHINY!" ;-}

window sleeves for the S.S. Events, please let me know, yes?

[seanfingh]

MCF335 - 1st off, I am really sorry this happened.

The type of damage exhibited here, were i called in to testify based upon my experience, comes from shipping (assuming that the rest look pretty much like this.) 

I have dropped books before and I have seen shipping damage and the difference is that when books are dropped, there is nothing holding them together for commonality of damage. So you will get some that land flat and are OK (my experience is that lot of them land flat probably because of physics), some that hit one corner, some that hit another, some that have edge damage and some can hit so hard that it generates spine tics. 

For that type of shipping damage, the boards and books will have very similar looking corner or edge crunches because you packed them uniformly and the damage was as the result of a serious impact in one place.

What you have to remember (if you ever decide to ship comics again) is that a book can be secure in its bag and board for a static situation, but you have to use a lot of extra padding and softness around them or this type of impact damage will just blast the bag and board and transmit the impact dynamically to the book.  I am certain that you did include other protection but sometimes the impacts are simply brutal.

[seanfingh]

Also, I just re-read that you used padded mailers. That is an absolutely no.  You have to use boxes to ship comic books. Period. Hard stop.  I don't care what the marketers say, padded mailers are worse than shipping in a cereal box. Save the boxes that CGC ships in, bind the comics in the bags and boards well, put lots of impact-absorbing padding around them and then ship.

[BabyAteMyDingo]

You are straying off topic a bit, mates. If I am asked to sign an agreement that CGC or any grader is not responsible for damages incurred in their care - which is what this thread is about - my books stay to home. This may be in response to the recent bad reports we have seen wherein damages have occurred in their care. This would be further refusal to own up to damaging someone else's property while paying for a service. Not the PR response that any good business should issue.

If a business cannot perform the service that they took payment for without damages, then ask me to sign a form saying they will not be responsible, the rest will speak for itself. I do not pay a business to fob off responsibility.

[seanfingh]

On 10/1/2021 at 4:27 PM, BabyAteMyDingo said:

You are straying off topic a bit, mates. If I am asked to sign an agreement that CGC or any grader is not responsible for damages incurred in their care - which is what this thread is about - my books stay to home. This may be in response to the recent bad reports we have seen wherein damages have occurred in their care. This would be further refusal to own up to damaging someone else's property while paying for a service. Not the PR response that any good business should issue.

If a business cannot perform the service that they took payment for without damages, then ask me to sign a form saying they will not be responsible, the rest will speak for itself. I do not pay a business to fob off responsibility.

You haven't read very many sets of terms and conditions, have you?

And if you think that response is off topic, when this poor dude is mailing high grade comics in padded mailers, then you need to check your head.

Clearly, the reason that CGC is re-emphasizing their damage waiver is because folks are shipping high grade books poorly, getting them damaged, and then expecting CGC to make them whole.

Consider this a PSA for folks that don't do a lot of shipping of condition-sensitive materials.

But if you want to bang your shoe on the podium about liability waivers, knock yourself out.

[BabyAteMyDingo]

On 10/1/2021 at 4:43 PM, seanfingh said:

You haven't read very many sets of terms and conditions, have you?

And if you think that response is off topic, when this poor dude is mailing high grade comics in padded mailers, then you need to check your head.

Clearly, the reason that CGC is re-emphasizing their damage waiver is because folks are shipping high grade books poorly, getting them damaged, and then expecting CGC to make them whole.

Consider this a PSA for folks that don't do a lot of shipping of condition-sensitive materials.

But if you want to bang your shoe on the podium about liability waivers, knock yourself out.

Don't mind f I do. And YOU didn't read the theme and opening salvo of this thread. Did you? DID YOU? While you blithely ignore the 100's of complaints right here on these very boards about damage occurring while in CGC's custody by ham fisted graders and those that unpack the orders preparing them for grading. This isn't CGC re-emphasizing their damage waiver. This is a NEW "terms and conditions" and the actual topic and theme of this thread. Reiterating their "We aren't at fault even if we use your comic book to light a cigar." stance.

I consider this an insulator CGC is using as an answer to the complaints they have been reading about. We will NOT be responsible for your valuables while they are in our care. If we damage them, you must suck it up.

If you are to blame window bags sent by CGC for signature as flimsy and sub par, then that is also on CGC for sending lousy packaging. I find it hard to believe an overwhelming majority doesn't know how to secure their valued treasures.

But anyway. The only way YOU will see it differently is when they return your former 9.8 as a 7.5. And likely then, you may still apologize for them. "Oh it's OK. They are BUSY. Accidents HAPPEN. I don't MIND. I am just honored they accepted my submission. SIIIIIGH!!!! "

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

[thesink]

My favorite part about this "argument" is that these 2 people (probably the same person) think that before CGC put in the new agreement (it's not new, just a new checkbox to explicitly point it out to the McDonalds coffee spillers) that this actually changed any sort of response/attitude/legal responsibility CGC had. They are acting like before this agreement CGC wouldn't hurt comics and if they did they legally would have full responsibility and be forced to 100% reimburse any customer for any possible damage and purchase the next comic for the owner, but once CGC created this agreement they now toss comics around the grading room for faster handling speeds with impunity. 

 

[Bird]

not enough 

and too much

[thesink]

Wow @Bird, that is amazing and I and the 5 other people that will understand this/these references appreciate it. 

[juniorMC]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:36 PM, seanfingh said:

Also, I just re-read that you used padded mailers. That is an absolutely no.  You have to use boxes to ship comic books. Period. Hard stop.  I don't care what the marketers say, padded mailers are worse than shipping in a cereal box. Save the boxes that CGC ships in, bind the comics in the bags and boards well, put lots of impact-absorbing padding around them and then ship.

I see padded mailers being pushed on ebay as if that matters.  I tape books to cut up big screen tv boxes.  they are about the thickest cardboard u can use.  for them to get bent u have to actually bend them.  I'm surprised no one else uses them.  i'm the only one.  I grab them from apartment dumpsters.  best time to get them is Christmas.  I'm tapped out now, cant find them anywhere.  I actually go Christmas shopping for myself in dumpsters.  Found a remote control in a box once, sold it on ebay for about $36

[juniorMC]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:56 AM, Bird said:

not enough 

and too much

Why Elaine! you look scrumptious!

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:24 PM, juniorMC said:

I see padded mailers being pushed on ebay as if that matters.  I tape books to cut up big screen tv boxes.  they are about the thickest cardboard u can use.  for them to get bent u have to actually bend them.  I'm surprised no one else uses them.  i'm the only one.  I grab them from apartment dumpsters.  best time to get them is Christmas.  I'm tapped out now, cant find them anywhere.  I actually go Christmas shopping for myself in dumpsters.  Found a remote control in a box once, sold it on ebay for about $36

I use sheets of $1 foam board.  You can cut several books worth from 1 sheet. I buy them by the box full, but also use those and water activated tape to make my own boxes. That way I can ship anything from single books up to full long boxes. 

[MCF335]

OOPS to seanfingh; My Bad; As I've been collecting since the 50's, This "Olde Timer" made a Brain-Blooper! To Clarify; I take a LARGE FLAT RATE BOX, APPLY STEAM AFTER MAKING A 3/4" CUT AT EACH FOLD/CORNER,SHAVE OFF ABOUT 1/2" FROM THE 4 FOLDS ( SO AS TO MAKE A SMALLER BOX WHICH I THEN INSERT INTO ANOTHER LARGE FLAT RATE (EXO-SKELETON, ANYONE ? ;-} WITH ABOUT A DOZEN PADDED PRIORITY BAGS FOR CUSHIONING BOTH INSIDE AND AROUND PADDED BAGS CONTAINING PAINTER-TAPE BOUND 5-COUNT CGC WINDOW BAGS WITH BACKERS PER BOOK AND ON EITHER SIDE OF THE SHINEY YELLOW 5-COUNT WINDOW BAGS INSERTED INTO YET ANOTHER USPS PADDED MAILER BAG; STACKED TIGHTLY AT 25 BOOKS ( FIVE 5-COUNT USPS PADDED BAGS) PER DOUBLE LARGE FLAT RATE BOX. Must have been a Wild night for those FL USPS Handlers. BTW; My Maintenance Man/Friend retired after 35 years with USPS. FL is VERY well-known within the system as being akin to sending a parcel to GREECE. Many times (won't bend yer ears;-} I've sent well-pack items (electronics, yadda yadda) which arrived IN SHAMBLES! I mean; SMASHED TO SMITHEREENS?!  I Do believe the damage did indeed occur during USPS handling and NOT from the Good Folks at CGC. The consistency of the exact same corner & the sequence of Certification numbers do vouchsafe that theory.

Thank you all for your contribution to this Thread; It's been reassuring to see a Community with some cohesive interaction!

 

[seanfingh]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:49 PM, BabyAteMyDingo said:

Don't mind f I do. And YOU didn't read the theme and opening salvo of this thread. Did you? DID YOU? While you blithely ignore the 100's of complaints right here on these very boards about damage occurring while in CGC's custody by ham fisted graders and those that unpack the orders preparing them for grading. This isn't CGC re-emphasizing their damage waiver. This is a NEW "terms and conditions" and the actual topic and theme of this thread. Reiterating their "We aren't at fault even if we use your comic book to light a cigar." stance.

I consider this an insulator CGC is using as an answer to the complaints they have been reading about. We will NOT be responsible for your valuables while they are in our care. If we damage them, you must suck it up.

If you are to blame window bags sent by CGC for signature as flimsy and sub par, then that is also on CGC for sending lousy packaging. I find it hard to believe an overwhelming majority doesn't know how to secure their valued treasures.

But anyway. The only way YOU will see it differently is when they return your former 9.8 as a 7.5. And likely then, you may still apologize for them. "Oh it's OK. They are BUSY. Accidents HAPPEN. I don't MIND. I am just honored they accepted my submission. SIIIIIGH!!!! "

  When I sent in 9.8s they came back 9.8s, because I shipped hundred and sometimes thousands of books a year. I became an expert at it.  I did have a couple of shipments damaged, in both cases because of gross mishandling by the common carrier. It happens.

The OP absolutely did discuss the new waiver, and anyone that wants to continue talking about it, please feel free. I was far more interested in helping the gentleman figure out why his books were damaged (which it turns out, was not the actual case . . .)

Damage waivers are SOP in virtually every industry.  That doesn't mean you have to like them nor do you have to use a company that has one.  It also goes without saying that continued rich conversation about the applicability, use and ramifications of damage waivers will most likely be enlightening to future readers of this thread.

So carry on wayward son, and shine on crazy diamond. Pound your shoe with vigor and gusto - shout from the rooftops.  And I will champion your right to do so.