Penciller vs inker 0

[New School Fool]

Recently a new batch of comic art was released that was pencilled from a well established artist with a large following. I normally don't think this artist is that great myself yet their pieces command high sums on the secondary market. I noticed the price tag on these new pieces were very reasonable (i.e. not expensive at all) yet they didn't fly off the shelves like I seen with other artists recently. Then I noticed the pages were inked by another artists that had decent credentials to his name but is essentially far less well known than the penciller. Which begs the question, Do people frown upon different artists doing the pencils and inks? If so, which is considered the more worthy? Me personally, I would have thought it wouldn't matter who the inker was with this well known artist, but I was able to browse at leisure over the new art, ponder over what I wanted and pick a very good page at a very good price. Normally (e.g. Felix's drops) if you even stop to think for a microsecond you're missing out.

Is a separate inker considered detrimental to the art if the inker is relatively unknown? What if the penciller is unknown and the inker is well known? Would the page have commanded a higher price if they were pencilled only?

It would be great to hear your thoughts, I've been collecting for about 4 years now but I'm still a relative newbie.

[RafaVia]

Maybe it’s inks over printed bluelines instead of over original pencils?

[grapeape]

It always matters who the inker is on a piece of art work.
 

The inker can ruin a penciler’s work.

An inker can also compliment a penciler’s work or even better take it to new heights. Below are some of the best. I won’t name the worst.

• Joe Sinnott

• Scott Williams

• Jim Mooney

• Steve Leialoha

The pages may have cost less as the preferred inker did not work on the pages? 
Do you like the way the pages look? Do you feel you paid a fair price? 
That’s the most important thing I believe:

* Penciled only work almost always sells for far less then a completed page (pencil + inks).

 

 

[Brian Peck]

But you can also have great inkers over pencilers but certain teams like Byrne/Austin, Buscema, Palmer or Alan Davis/Paul Neary command higher prices than if the penciler was paired with different inkers. Unfortunately whomever the penciler is tends to effect the value of a comic art page more than the inker. You will notice when many people post art on the messageboard, Comicartans or Facebook the inking credits tend to be left off. Which is a sham.

[Will_K]

OP didn't say whether the art in question is published art or not.

Sometimes you see a commission or convention sketch that was drawn (and signed) in pencil.  And then it is inked and signed in ink by another artist.  For me, that is a turn off.

Comic books are a weird thing.  In almost all other visual arts and commercial art, you usually don't see the art credited to more than one person (even if they had assistants/apprentices).  And before digital technologies, the physical original comic art was handled by so many people besides the penciler and inker.  You've got the letterer, someone indicating corrections and the bullpen making corrections.  Going back further, someone had to indicate the color codes on the art.

For comic book art, the penciler is a factor and the inker is a factor.  Each requires different skills.  As my tastes evolved, there are certain pencilers that I will totally avoid because I think too much work was left to the inker.  One the other hand, if the inker had so much influence that the penciler's work isn't readily seen, that is also a turn off. 

It's very common to have a separate penciler and inker, so it's almost impossible to have a rule against it.  But I also tend to like artists that usually ink their own work or they've demonstrated that they are very capable inkers.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Will_K

[Rick2you2]

On 9/15/2021 at 2:27 PM, Shin-Kaiser said:

Which begs the question, Do people frown upon different artists doing the pencils and inks? If so, which is considered the more worthy? Me personally, I would have thought it wouldn't matter who the inker was with this well known artist, but I was able to browse at leisure over the new art, ponder over what I wanted and pick a very good page at a very good price. Normally (e.g. Felix's drops) if you even stop to think for a microsecond you're missing out.

Pencilling and inking are different skills. For example, I don’t think Byrne is a great inker even though he inks his pencils. Rubinstein is an excellent inker, but his pencils are not the best. Inking can dominate the lined art, but never the layout or mood. There are also some pencillers whose work is so rough, the inker is really the controlling artist. Bottom line: look to the total package.

[Rick2you2]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:37 PM, Will_K said:

OP didn't say whether the art in question is published art or not.

Sometimes you see a commission or convention sketch that was drawn (and signed) in pencil.  And then it is inked and signed in ink by another artist.  For me, that is a turn off.

Comic books are a weird thing.  In almost all other visual arts and commercial art, you usually don't see the art credited to more than one person (even if they had assistants/apprentices).  And before digital technologies, the physical original comic art was handled by so many people besides the penciler and inker.  You've got the letterer, someone indicating corrections and the bullpen making corrections.  Going back further, someone had to indicate the color codes on the art.

For comic book art, the penciler is a factor and the inker is a factor.  Each requires different skills.  As my tastes evolved, there are certain pencilers that I will totally avoid because I think too much work was left to the inker.  One the other hand, if the inker had so much influence that the penciler's work isn't readily seen, that is also a turn off. 

It's very common to have a separate penciler and inker, so it's almost impossible to have a rule against it.  But I also tend to like artists that usually ink their own work or they've demonstrated that they are very capable inkers.

I was planning on buying a Robson Rocha cover before he died, but when I looked at the pencils, he left so much for the inker to do, it wasn’t worth it. No regrets, even though he died. By the way, the inking was done on a computer, which the artist offered to redo by hand, but that’s obviously not the same thing. Curse you Adobe, and all your ilk!

[RBerman]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:27 PM, Shin-Kaiser said:

Recently a new batch of comic art was released that was pencilled from a well established artist with a large following. I normally don't think this artist is that great myself yet their pieces command high sums on the secondary market. I noticed the price tag on these new pieces were very reasonable (i.e. not expensive at all) yet they didn't fly off the shelves like I seen with other artists recently. Then I noticed the pages were inked by another artists that had decent credentials to his name but is essentially far less well known than the penciller. Which begs the question, Do people frown upon different artists doing the pencils and inks? If so, which is considered the more worthy? Me personally, I would have thought it wouldn't matter who the inker was with this well known artist, but I was able to browse at leisure over the new art, ponder over what I wanted and pick a very good page at a very good price. Normally (e.g. Felix's drops) if you even stop to think for a microsecond you're missing out.

Is a separate inker considered detrimental to the art if the inker is relatively unknown? What if the penciller is unknown and the inker is well known? Would the page have commanded a higher price if they were pencilled only?

It would be great to hear your thoughts, I've been collecting for about 4 years now but I'm still a relative newbie.

Subject matter and vintage makes a difference as well. A Byrne/Austin X-Men page will cost 500x more than a Byrne/Byrne Labs Rats page.

[New School Fool]

On 9/16/2021 at 2:17 PM, RBerman said:

Subject matter and vintage makes a difference as well. A Byrne/Austin X-Men page will cost 500x more than a Byrne/Byrne Labs Rats page.

Yes, I think this must have been it.

For those that were asking, yes they were published pages of modern art. I guess not many people on this forum go for the modern stuff which may have been reflected in the price tag.

[Rick2you2]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:57 AM, Shin-Kaiser said:

Yes, I think this must have been it.

For those that were asking, yes they were published pages of modern art. I guess not many people on this forum go for the modern stuff which may have been reflected in the price tag.

It isn't so much a matter of liking the modern stuff, it's that pricing is often reflective of nostalgia--that is, old. Also: (1) I don't like tracking down separate inked and pencilled pages, which reduces my interest; (2) some artists skills decline noticeably with time; and (3) some of the classic artists have moved away from the Big Two, reducing interest in their product.

I had thought RBerman was joking about Bryne Lab Rats. DC actually did publish something like that. Wow.

I, however, do buy modern when I find it and like it. I think a lot of newer artists are underappreciated (not counting the "superstars"), and their style is more in tune with my tastes.

[vodou]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:57 AM, Shin-Kaiser said:

For those that were asking, yes they were published pages of modern art. I guess not many people on this forum go for the modern stuff which may have been reflected in the price tag.

You mentioned Felix's roster in one of your posts. I don't think he'll get bent out of shape if you just post the links to the items in question.

If you give us a clear idea of what's on the table, we'll give you our clear opinion on handicapping "why", which is where you started.

[vodou]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:31 AM, Rick2you2 said:

...and their style is more in tune with my tastes.

Often mine as well. The industry average for Art is much higher than it was 30 or 40 years ago.

This means a lot of high quality Art for the collector across the price spectrum, not only concentrated among a handful of expensive at primary artists.

I've yet to bump into a 21st century artist that's as bad or worse than...Rik Levins or Brian Kong (sorry fanboys, but the truth can be painful  ).

[RBerman]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:31 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I had thought RBerman was joking about Bryne Lab Rats. DC actually did publish something like that. Wow.

And, you know, if being an off-brand, off-prime series depresses the price to the point where I can afford Byrne drawing a herd of velociraptors, I'm OK with that. You can keep your "Fate of the Phoenix" DPS!

Edited September 16, 2021 by RBerman

[Rick2you2]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:37 AM, RBerman said:

And, you know, if being an off-brand, off-prime series depresses the price to the point where I can afford Byrne drawing a herd of velociraptors, I'm OK with that. You can keep your M'Kraan crystal DPS!

If you want inexpensive Byrne art, there is more at: http://www.whatashock.com/doasales/byrne1.html I liked a couple of Doom Patrol pages (well below the Morlockian price point).

[New School Fool]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:34 PM, vodou said:

You mentioned Felix's roster in one of your posts. I don't think he'll get bent out of shape if you just post the links to the items in question.

If you give us a clear idea of what's on the table, we'll give you our clear opinion on handicapping "why", which is where you started.

Don't all or most of the art Felix reps sell out in minutes..? I'm not referencing any particular art Felix sells specifically, just in general.

As for the art I am talking about...I had a feeling this question would be asked...I'm somewhat of a blackhole collector. It'll be easy to deduce which art I've purchased if I send you the link. Which, right now, I'm not prepared to do - sorry.

[Rick2you2]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:54 AM, Rick2you2 said:

If you want inexpensive Byrne art, there is more at: http://www.whatashock.com/doasales/byrne1.html I liked a couple of Doom Patrol pages (well below the Morlockian price point).

Let me add that if work within a Morlock's budget, the Mike Kaluta art on Heritage's weekly auctions involving, for the most part, Madam Xanadu, is very good. The panel page separations are non-existent, which is a bit confusing, and the subject matter isn't always the best, but for the price--this is still Kaluta and well done, too.

[RBerman]

On 9/16/2021 at 12:13 PM, Rick2you2 said:

Let me add that if work within a Morlock's budget, the Mike Kaluta art on Heritage's weekly auctions involving, for the most part, Madam Xanadu, is very good. The panel page separations are non-existent, which is a bit confusing, and the subject matter isn't always the best, but for the price--this is still Kaluta and well done, too.

Yes, I've been impressed by those as well. I picked up a couple of Kaluta pages from his adaptation of The Abyss, a favorite movie for my wife and me.

[vodou]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:54 AM, Shin-Kaiser said:

Don't all or most of the art Felix reps sell out in minutes..?

Some do, some don't.

On 9/16/2021 at 11:54 AM, Shin-Kaiser said:

I'm somewhat of a blackhole collector.

Likewise. Except for the "somewhat" part.

On 9/16/2021 at 11:54 AM, Shin-Kaiser said:

It'll be easy to deduce which art I've purchased if I send you the link. Which, right now, I'm not prepared to do - sorry.

Uh huh. I'm going to suggest that if you want the community to work with you...you've got to give to get.

Specifically, this market is fragmented enough (still) that there are few answers to any questions that apply across the board.

My education came mostly through many years in the school of hard knocks; I'm here to only give and take care of my own getting.

This post would be an example of that.

[New School Fool]

On 9/16/2021 at 7:08 PM, vodou said:

Uh huh. I'm going to suggest that if you want the community to work with you...you've got to give to get.

Well enough art has sold now making it harder to deduce that which I have bought exactly. But the artist in question is John Romita Jr, and the penciller being JP Meyer. There is art for sale from a newly published Fantastic Four issue over at Comiconart.

[Twanj]

On 9/18/2021 at 10:31 AM, Shin-Kaiser said:

Well enough art has sold now making it harder to deduce that which I have bought exactly. But the artist in question is John Romita Jr, and the penciller being JP Meyer. There is art for sale from a newly published Fantastic Four issue over at Comiconart.

It's kinda confusing but I think your original question may have been about art that's original pencils and inks on one board (older usually) vs an inks only blueline pencils board.

Yes, the inks only blueline pencils boards are cheaper.

These seem fairly priced.