Donny Cates return "Original" Cover art Miracleman # 1
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65 posts in this topic

One of our omissions from the whole subject is the quality of the piece vs. its originality. As art, is it worth $10,000? Looks good from the pictures, and it seems realistically priced, but I have no general sense of how to price unidentified art.

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On 10/16/2021 at 6:16 AM, Rick2you2 said:

One of our omissions from the whole subject is the quality of the piece vs. its originality. As art, is it worth $10,000? Looks good from the pictures, and it seems realistically priced, but I have no general sense of how to price unidentified art.

I don’t know what you’re asking exactly but I think you’re asking what’s it worth as unpublished lines on paper with no relation to any IP whatsoever?   
 

I feel like we discuss that regularly .   None of this is worth anything without those connections.    If Kirby or Ditko had never drawn a comic their lines on paper would be utterly worthless, and that’s more fact than conjecture when you look around at the marketplace. 

Edited by Bronty
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On 10/18/2021 at 8:21 AM, Bronty said:

I don’t know what you’re asking exactly but I think you’re asking what’s it worth as unpublished lines on paper with no relation to any IP whatsoever?   
 

I feel like we discuss that regularly .   None of this is worth anything without those connections.    If Kirby or Ditko had never drawn a comic their lines on paper would be utterly worthless, and that’s more fact than conjecture when you look around at the marketplace. 

That’s not really what I was going for. More like, was the recreation a good job from an aesthetic view? has to be worth something—even a sawbuck. Albert did put a price on it, so he had some thoughts. 

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On 10/18/2021 at 12:58 PM, Rick2you2 said:

That’s not really what I was going for. More like, was the recreation a good job from an aesthetic view? has to be worth something—even a sawbuck. Albert did put a price on it, so he had some thoughts. 

Sure.   I mean, in that case we are talking about some algorithm of commission price, success of recreation, difficulty of obtaining commission, whether the artist will do the same recreation multiple times or not, etc.

10k doesn't seem out of line for what it was.

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I mean I'm just gonna say it: it's easy for people plugged in to the OA market to know at a glance how and why there's no way this would be the original cover for MM #1 at the price, but most comics fans have no visibility into this market unless they are collectors themselves. Ask a non-oa collector comics fan how much they think something like the original piece would cost and I'm sure you'd get guesses as low as a few k. Should Cates have done some more due diligence before being ready to eff around and drop 10k? Absolutely. But it's not like he's an insufficiently_thoughtful_person for thinking there was a possibility this was the original at the price, especially given the hyper-inflation in the market over the course of the pandemic. Just my two cents. 

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On 10/19/2021 at 1:36 PM, rlextherobot said:

I mean I'm just gonna say it: it's easy for people plugged in to the OA market to know at a glance how and why there's no way this would be the original cover for MM #1 at the price, but most comics fans have no visibility into this market unless they are collectors themselves. Ask a non-oa collector comics fan how much they think something like the original piece would cost and I'm sure you'd get guesses as low as a few k. Should Cates have done some more due diligence before being ready to eff around and drop 10k? Absolutely. But it's not like he's an insufficiently_thoughtful_person for thinking there was a possibility this was the original at the price, especially given the hyper-inflation in the market over the course of the pandemic. Just my two cents. 

Well, the mistake was dumb, and made worse by the insta post, but you can sort of see how it would happen.

He deserves a bit of ribbing, but people will get over it.

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On 10/13/2021 at 10:33 AM, MagnusX said:

"I might have just f-cked around and bought the original art to MIRACLEMAN #1"
FBXUXEfXoAYxa4u.thumb.jpg.aa51ba805a09d202ba648a0f5253e76e.jpg

 

 

Never heard of "Cates" until this topic. No issues with someone not being in the Original Comic Art know. The IMHO cringe worthy post on his Social Media however has nothing to do with a lack of OA knowledge therefore a good ribbin' is simply not out of order.

Edited by MAR1979
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On 10/20/2021 at 3:34 PM, MAR1979 said:

a good ribbin' is simply not out of order

We've all probably made an ill advised hasty purchase temporarily blinded by our own excitement,  on our own relative scales, perhaps without the posting for all the world to see part.  Maybe he'd have done better not deleting the post, thanking the seller publicly for gracefully accepting the return, learning from the experience, owning it, and laughing it off... that is if he didn't do some of this already.  Hats off to him if he handled it like a champ and I wasn't aware.  IG...bleh.

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He did get lucky it was Albert as their were at least 3 OCA dealers in attendance at NYCC who would likley not have accepted a return if it had been a cash sale.  No names need be mentioned ,I think most who have been around the hobby know.

Edited by MAR1979
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For all the old guys 
who keep saying:
"Who is Donny Cates?"

He is one of the top  10 writers (Maybe top 5)
for this generation (The one that are actually buying new comics).

His name and "Venom"
are going to be link together for the next 20 years....

2 Omnibus coming in 2022 with his name;
not an easy task...

 

 

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On 10/22/2021 at 9:42 AM, MagnusX said:

For all the old guys 
who keep saying:
"Who is Donny Cates?"

He is one of the top  10 writers (Maybe top 5)
for this generation (The one that are actually buying new comics).

His name and "Venom"
are going to be link together for the next 20 years....

2 Omnibus coming in 2022 with his name;
not an easy task...

 

 

He also wrote Silver Surfer Black which I recall was a big deal 'round these parts... 

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On 10/22/2021 at 12:42 PM, MagnusX said:

For all the old guys 
who keep saying:
"Who is Donny Cates?"

He is one of the top  10 writers (Maybe top 5)
for this generation (The one that are actually buying new comics).

His name and "Venom"
are going to be link together for the next 20 years....

2 Omnibus coming in 2022 with his name;
not an easy task...

 

 

apparently a good writer... apparently out of the loop on OA..

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On 10/22/2021 at 12:42 PM, MagnusX said:

For all the old guys 
who keep saying:
"Who is Donny Cates?"

He is one of the top  10 writers (Maybe top 5)
for this generation (The one that are actually buying new comics).

His name and "Venom"
are going to be link together for the next 20 years....

2 Omnibus coming in 2022 with his name;
not an easy task...

 

 

Well then its good to know his Social media posting is not indicative of his writing - right?

BTW: I might have just F-ed around at lunch and consumed "an omelette - plain, a chicken salad sandwich on wheat toast. No mayonnaise, no butter, no lettuce. And a cup of coffee"

 

Edited by MAR1979
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On 10/22/2021 at 6:59 PM, MAR1979 said:

Well then its good to know his Social media posting is not indicative of his writing - right?

BTW: I might have just F-ed around at lunch and consumed "an omelette - plain, a chicken salad sandwich on wheat toast. No mayonnaise, no butter, no lettuce. And a cup of coffee"

 

you want me to hold the chicken, huh?

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