Which BA writer do you think had the biggest impact on the medium going forward? 2 2

[Gatsby77]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:43 PM, Albert Thurgood said:

It's an argument for another thread, but if not for BWS, Conan would not have got off the ground and ran for all those other issues.

I fundamentally disagree with this.

And, more importantly, so does Roy Thomas.

Check out his 6-page article "A $50 Misunderstanding" at the back of Chronicles of Conan Vol. 1, that reprints # 1-8.

A few things stand out:

1) John Buscema was the first choice to draw Conan from the jump, but was too expensive, given the additional licensing fees Marvel had to pay.

2) Gene Colan was the likely second choice but same story - too expensive.

3) Conan was *not* a big seller out-of-the-gate -- and, contrary to the Overstreet's Guide and fiction perpetuated for decades, issue # 3 didn't have a low print run. Rather, sales for each issue after # 1 steadily decreased until rebounding with issue # 8.

So, per Roy Thomas himself, Conan # 7 is lowest print run issue of the first 24 or so, and # 8 basically saved the book from cancellation.

Add in the fact that the mafia heavily speculated on Conan # 1 - and helped manipulate its price as a new back issue during the first few months, it would likely have been a hit even if Buscema had drawn it rather than BWS.

But the primary point here is BWS's art got notice, but sales decreased from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4...until around 8-12, and Marvel themselves didn't even know this in real time, because they only got final sales numbers months after the fact.

Finally, today there's not a demonstrable difference in high-grade back issue prices of the #10-24 issues Gil Kane drew (12, 17-18) vs. Smith.

If anything, # 12 is extraordinarily expensive - because it's nearly impossible to find in 9.6 or 9.8 - but because of its black cover, nothing to do with the (non-BWS) artist. (Less than 25 copies in CGC 9.8 or 9.6 combined).

[gunsmokin]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:37 AM, Brock said:

Bill Mantlo

Agreed! This was going to be my choice as well.

[gunsmokin]

Englehart’s run on the Avengers was very “formative” for me.

[Chaykin Stevens]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:08 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Finally, today there's not a demonstrable difference in high-grade back issue prices of the #10-24 issues Gil Kane drew (12, 17-18) vs. Smith.

If anything, # 12 is extraordinarily expensive - because it's nearly impossible to find in 9.6 or 9.8 - but because of its black cover, nothing to do with the (non-BWS) artist. (Less than 25 copies in CGC 9.8 or 9.6 combined).

Smith drew CTB #12. Kane just drew the cover.

[D2]

Reading some of these responses feel very much like "These are who I liked the most in the BA"

 

[Gatsby77]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:37 PM, Chaykin Stevens said:

Smith drew CTB #12. Kane just drew the cover.

Still - I stand by the rest of my points - Conan would still have been a success with Buscema at the helm from issue 1.

[Chaykin Stevens]

Looking at the credits GCD it appears Kane pencilled a seven page Tales of the Hyborian Age backup in #12 with inking from Tom Palmer and Berni Wrightson.

[ganni]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:37 PM, Brock said:

Bill Mantlo

God bless Bill Mantlo.  Hope his condition is better now.

[Terry JSA]

I would say Roy Thomas since he did a lot for Marvel during the Bronze Age of Comics with him creating and co-creating characters like Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Iron Fist, and even Luke Cage. Can’t forget his work on Conan either! 

But I’m gonna go with Dennis O'Neil. His work on Hard Traveling Heroes (alongside Neal Adams) is why I’m mentioning him. The stories tackled social issues like racism, drugs, overpopulation, urban decay, and protecting the environment. That wasn’t something you were seeing in superhero comics at that time. While it may be dated, you can’t ignore the fact that a lot of the issues covered are still issues that we still struggle with in modern day America.

Though I will say the story about Native Americans felt awkward and that would probably be labeled as racist these days, even though it is trying to address the injustices that Native Americans experience.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Terry JSA

[ADAMANTIUM]

Claremont, he also worked out "an" ending to GSXM#1 

still safe to mention that every once in a while for word of mouth  Just as it might be a qualified credit that helps the case here  

Edited October 17, 2021 by ADAMANTIUM

[JTLarsen]

I’d say New X-Men was singularly successful, but O’Neil’s writing was more influential. So many others followed in his footsteps. Frank Miller surpassed him, but was standing on his shoulders.

[rexinnih]

Choosing one, I'd have to go with Roy Thomas. How much, good or bad, there is a lot of influence from his writing and taking over as Marvel editor. 

[divad]

Great thread - many interesting perspectives. 

[tth2]

On 10/17/2021 at 4:46 AM, D2 said:

Reading some of these responses feel very much like "These are who I liked the most in the BA"

 

That's because there wasn't really any dominant writer(s) during the BA, unlike the SA (Stan Lee) and CA (Miller and Moore).

[ganni]

Robert "Bob"  Kanigher is quite dominant in the infinite bronze war thread.

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 10/14/2021 at 4:38 PM, Spider-Variant said:

I think Gerry Conway changed the entire trajectory of the Amazing Spider-Man universe with ASM 121-122.  

Agreed, this was a major shift in ASM

[jjonahjameson11]

Without a doubt, it’s Len Wein…co-creator of:

Swamp Thing

Arcane

GS Xmen

Wolverine

lengthy run as writer on FF, Spidey, hulk, batman, etc

thats just his work as a writer in the Bronze Age.  I won’t even begin to list the incredible accomplishments he’s had as editor, and editor in chief at DC and Marvel!

Edited October 19, 2021 by jjonahjameson11

[tth2]

On 10/20/2021 at 4:22 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Without a doubt, it’s Len Wein…co-creator of:

Swamp Thing

Arcane

GS Xmen

Wolverine

Interesting point, but the problem is that while he may have co-created these characters, he had absolutely nothing to do with making them popular.  It was Wrightson's art that made Swamp Thing 1.0 popular, and Alan Moore's writing that made Swamp Thing 2.0 hugely popular and influential.

New X-Men and Wolverine were of course all about Claremont and Cockrum/Byrne.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:03 PM, tth2 said:

Interesting point, but the problem is that while he may have co-created these characters, he had absolutely nothing to do with making them popular.  It was Wrightson's art that made Swamp Thing 1.0 popular, and Alan Moore's writing that made Swamp Thing 2.0 hugely popular and influential.

New X-Men and Wolverine were of course all about Claremont and Cockrum/Byrne.

And yet, you gotta start somewhere.  If it weren’t for Wein co-creating the new Xmen franchise or the Wolverine franchise or swampy, would we even be mentioning Claremont or Moore?

[JTLarsen]

On 10/20/2021 at 6:53 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

And yet, you gotta start somewhere.  If it weren’t for Wein co-creating the new Xmen franchise or the Wolverine franchise or swampy, would we even be mentioning Claremont or Moore?

Yes. See: Marvelman and V For Vendetta. Moore was going to happen with or without Swamp Thing.