Hulk 180 or 181 1st app by the co creator
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113 posts in this topic

On 11/4/2021 at 12:57 PM, rexinnih said:

Weeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll, only 181 is graded (6.5 but happy with it as I remember buying if for $20 in my youth). 180 on the other hand, I won't grade due to the fact my goal was to get the final panel signed by Herb Trimpe which I will now share where he lends his view. 

I also had Roy Thomas sign a few years ago and he liked the quote. 

Hulk 180 Back Page jpg.jpg

This is a very desirable copy of this book.  Nice work getting the signatures on the final page and not on the front cover like an animal.  :headbang:

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On 11/3/2021 at 10:23 AM, jimjum12 said:

... no bearing on the definition of cameo.

.... no bearing on the definition of cameo.

These are both examples of you attempting to interject your "feelings" into a discussion as fact by spinning data as relevant. I'll stand behind you every time when you're right, this isn't one of those times. It's hard to turn "wrong" around once it leaves the station. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

Give up Jimbo,

This guy got into the same argument with me about Superman 4 and Action 23. Even though through many pages we proved that Superman 4 hit newsstands BEFORE Action 23, he continued to talk in circles. We even provided pictures of date stamps which he said he would acknowledge as proof, before back-pedaling. Then, he proceeded to do the same thing he is here... "market has spoken" "enjoy your less valued book". 

ZERO INTEREST IN THE HISTORY OF THE MEDIUM. Pure petulant behavior.

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On 11/5/2021 at 10:04 PM, Randall Dowling said:

(Disclosure:  I have never owned either issue and will not benefit financially in any case as I will never pay what these books now cost.  This is purely my opinion as a lifelong fan of the MCU.)

I agree completely with this.  The problem is the constant use of the word "cameo" in order to reduce the value of Hulk 180.  It's not an accurate descriptive but rather a diminution by many to create a hierarchy to benefit Hulk 181 disproportionately.  If Hulk 181 is the much more desirable book, then describe them both accurately and let the chips fall where they may.

The constant reference to the final panel of Hulk 180 as "non-substantive" is garbage as well.  It's nearly a splash page with only Wolverine delivering a few lines, promising to change the outcome of the battle.  And there's a couple of descriptive boxes to build suspense for the next issue.  It's not a character in shadow or disguise for one panel.  It's not an oblique reference to someone named Wolverine.  It's a dramatic presentation of the fully formed character, named and promised to be a game changer in the battle at hand.  

I didn't buy this off the stands.  But if I was a kid and read it the day it came out, I would've been filled with anticipation for the next issue to tell me more about this "Wolverine" character.  I wouldn't have thought "There's a cameo of Wolverine on the last page."  I would have thought "The last page has the first appearance of a new character named Wolverine".  I know he's got some kind of crazy claws and he's a brawler and I want to see how this plays out with the Hulk and Wendigo.  And the government refers to him as "Weapon X", a signature part of Wolverine's identity as his origin developed over the next couple decades.  If that's not a first appearance, I don't know what is.  And clearly both creators agreed.  'Nuff said!

Plus, I haven't seen it mentioned here yet (even though it's near common knowledge), Marvel distinctively names Incredible Hulk 180 as the First Appearance of Wolverine on their own website. It is unquestionably the first appearance of Wolverine. Argue otherwise and you are denying that the publisher, property holder, creators and human beings with two eyes, know what they're talking about. Is Hulk 181 a cooler book? Is it more valuable? Does it have a better cover? Is it the 2nd appearance of Wolverine? Yes, yes, yes and Duh!

 

Screenshot_20211105-224203_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20211105-224211_Chrome.jpg

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I've had a copy of 180 since I was a kid in the 80s. It was only 15 years ago I found a copy of 181. I was adamant back in the day that 180 mattered. It was Wolverine's first appearance. Now having both I know that 181 is the one which matters - second, full, cover appearance, whatever.

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On 11/5/2021 at 10:08 PM, Randall Dowling said:
On 11/4/2021 at 10:57 AM, rexinnih said:

Hulk 180 Back Page jpg.jpg

This is a very desirable copy of this book.  Nice work getting the signatures on the final page and not on the front cover like an animal.  :headbang:

100% first app 180 last page........ hm He could have stepped on a mine and it would have been his last app :whatthe: I say you can see he is part of the story last page it is not just a picture something could have happened to him in this panel (shrug)

Edited by woowoo
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On 11/5/2021 at 10:34 PM, Joshua33 said:

Give up Jimbo,

This guy got into the same argument with me about Superman 4 and Action 23. Even though through many pages we proved that Superman 4 hit newsstands BEFORE Action 23, he continued to talk in circles. We even provided pictures of date stamps which he said he would acknowledge as proof, before back-pedaling. Then, he proceeded to do the same thing he is here... "market has spoken" "enjoy your less valued book". 

ZERO INTEREST IN THE HISTORY OF THE MEDIUM. Pure petulant behavior.

Agree Superman 4 first app of Luther. The problem is a grading company came in and said Action 23 so the market went crazy on Action 23 now it's to late to change what they said is the first app right ^^

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On 11/6/2021 at 10:22 AM, woowoo said:

Agree Superman 4 first app of Luther. The problem is a grading company came in and said Action 23 so the market went crazy on Action 23 now it's to late to change what they said is the first app right ^^

I honestly sometimes wish CGC would not have ever put 'content notes' on the labels and simply stuck to mentioning factual items regarding the book itself (creative credits, dates, publishers) and use that area for limited graders notes (manufacturing defects, bends, creases, inner page notes etc...) which would make a market desire for obtaining the most 'clean' empty copy of a book (not one with several items of condition notes).

Let the consumers decide and research WHY a comic is important.

Edited by Sauce Dog
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If anyone wants to see what a TRUE last panel cameo that was used to promote the next issue is, look at the final page of ASM 6. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

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On 11/6/2021 at 12:08 PM, Joshua33 said:

I just wish CGC would listen to the collectors when they've made mistakes. To me, the worst one out there is Conan 23 and 24. They label 23 first appearance, and 24 first full appearance of Red Sonja. If you've read 23, you know, she's essentially the ENTIRE STORY. 24 should not be labeled first full, but rather first cover appearance or 2nd appearance. 

 

Yup I feel your pain, I refer to this as the ARCHANGEL-FACTOR :D  Since that is the '1st appearance' mistake I ever noticed for a character I loved as a kid, and have been screaming into the void ever since the entire world decided - and CGC continues to perpetuate - his first appearance was AFTER two cameos and a full multi-page appearance in three prior issues :D

Edited by Sauce Dog
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On 11/5/2021 at 10:34 PM, Joshua33 said:

Give up Jimbo,

This guy got into the same argument with me about Superman 4 and Action 23. Even though through many pages we proved that Superman 4 hit newsstands BEFORE Action 23, he continued to talk in circles. We even provided pictures of date stamps which he said he would acknowledge as proof, before back-pedaling. Then, he proceeded to do the same thing he is here... "market has spoken" "enjoy your less valued book". 

ZERO INTEREST IN THE HISTORY OF THE MEDIUM. Pure petulant behavior.

:roflmao:Oh and you're that guy that likes to ignore what the actual publisher says about its own product.  

My recollection of the conversation also includes absurdist speculation from comic blogs and wikis, unsupported by ANY actual comic book authority.   Funny how you try to defer to what the publisher asserts with hulk 180 (more on that below) but choose to ignore that with Action 23.  :facepalm:

But yeah.... "history".  :eyeroll:

-J.

Edited by Jaydogrules
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On 11/6/2021 at 7:22 AM, woowoo said:

 

On 11/5/2021 at 10:49 PM, Joshua33 said:

Plus, I haven't seen it mentioned here yet (even though it's near common knowledge), Marvel distinctively names Incredible Hulk 180 as the First Appearance of Wolverine on their own website. It is unquestionably the first appearance of Wolverine. Argue otherwise and you are denying that the publisher, property holder, creators and human beings with two eyes, know what they're talking about. Is Hulk 181 a cooler book? Is it more valuable? Does it have a better cover? Is it the 2nd appearance of Wolverine? Yes, yes, yes and Duh!

 

Screenshot_20211105-224203_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20211105-224211_Chrome.jpg

hm This is a solicit for the FAX EDITION of 180 (and yeah, it's still just a one panel, non-substantive cameo at the end of a wendigo story).

Notably published AFTER the 181 fax edition. 

Let's take a look at the description for the actual issue for hulk 181 according to Marvel now.  

O the humanity!

https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/17198/incredible_hulk_1962_181

-J.

Screenshot_20211106-154723_Samsung Internet.jpg

Edited by Jaydogrules
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On 11/6/2021 at 3:49 PM, Jaydogrules said:

hm This is a solicit for the FAX EDITION of 180 (and yeah, it's still just a one panel, non-substantive cameo at the end of a wendigo story).

Notably published AFTER the 181 fax edition. 

Let's take a look at the description for the actual issue for hulk 181 according to Marvel now.  

O the humanity!

https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/17198/incredible_hulk_1962_181

-J.

Screenshot_20211106-154723_Samsung Internet.jpg

Sorry JayDog Wolverine appears in 180 before 181, and Superman 4 hit stands before Action 23. If you read back through our particular thread on the matter, you will actually find a verified date stamp on a S4 prior to the release date of Action 23. You were wrong then, you're wrong now, and nothing can change that. Go ahead and refer to your only legitimate point at any time... market has spoken.

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On 11/6/2021 at 4:29 PM, Joshua33 said:

Sorry JayDog Wolverine appears in 180 before 181, and Superman 4 hit stands before Action 23. If you read back through our particular thread on the matter, you will actually find a verified date stamp on a S4 prior to the release date of Action 23. You were wrong then, you're wrong now, and nothing can change that. Go ahead and refer to your only legitimate point at any time... market has spoken.

Hulk 180- Non-substantive one panel cameo at the end of a wendigo story, nobody disputes that.  

Action 23- "Date stamps" aren't definitive , but this is (what the publisher says controls,  remember?  I guess that only applies to whatever comic you're trying to redeem/bolster at the time:roflmao:).  You will never be right about this my dude no matter how much cloud fist punping you do.

https://www.dccomics.com/characters/lex-luthor

-J.

 

 

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On 11/6/2021 at 4:40 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Hulk 180- Non-substantive one panel cameo at the end of a wendigo story, nobody disputes that.  

Action 23- "Date stamps" aren't definitive , but this is (what the publisher says controls,  remember?  I guess that only applies to whatever comic you're trying to redeem/bolster at the time:roflmao:).  You will never be right about this my dude no matter how much cloud fist punping you do.

https://www.dccomics.com/characters/lex-luthor

-J.

 

 

Refer to our previous thread, where you acknowledge DC was wrong about their dates and kept little to no record of them back then, but nice try.

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On 11/6/2021 at 4:29 PM, Joshua33 said:

Sorry JayDog Wolverine appears in 180 before 181, and Superman 4 hit stands before Action 23. If you read back through our particular thread on the matter, you will actually find a verified date stamp on a S4 prior to the release date of Action 23. You were wrong then, you're wrong now, and nothing can change that. Go ahead and refer to your only legitimate point at any time... market has spoken.

:headbang:

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