Semi-random Question: Sub-Mariner 1 Value? 2 2

[davidpg]

Been researching and have checked GPA and auction results...

What would the general value be of a Submariner 1 1941 CGC 8.5 Cream=Off White?  What it should sell for right now?  It's a little more than what I'm used to dealing with and would appreciate any opinions!

[waaaghboss]

An 8.5 with OW pages sold for 144k this year.  I'd guess somewhere around that?

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/sub-mariner-comics-1-san-francisco-pedigree-timely-1941-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7246-94098.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

[VintageComics]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:19 AM, waaaghboss said:

An 8.5 with OW pages sold for 144k this year.  I'd guess somewhere around that?

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/sub-mariner-comics-1-san-francisco-pedigree-timely-1941-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7246-94098.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

That copy was the San Fran copy and those books almost always fetch a premium, like Church copies.

Not sure if a non-pedigree would sell for that much or not.

[waaaghboss]

On 11/24/2021 at 9:12 AM, VintageComics said:

That copy was the San Fran copy and those books almost always fetch a premium, like Church copies.

Not sure if a non-pedigree would sell for that much or not.

Slightly related, I read a long screed on FB yesterday about the SF pedigree not being from SF, by the guy who supposedly purchased it originally.   Was interesting, but had a real chip on the shoulder feel to it.  

Here it is if anyone's bored.

Spoiler

The Tom Reilly collection numbers well over 3500 comic books upwards of 4000 separate issues. Around 10% (maybe a smidge more) by my expert estimation at the time in 1973 based on the simple fact of having "been there" had the anchor stamp on the back cover and/or the Gilboy G dealer marks. Period.

TOM REILLY COLLECTION has brought out a lot of arrogance and insipid attacks from younger whippersnappers who think they are "experts" in the world of comics touting themselves as same in order to elevate their personal hype-meters so they can easier bamboozle the "investment" crowd which has been funneling many millions of dollars in to comic books. 

Chuck Sycamore wrote, ".... Thanks for putting forth the truth. It’s amazing to me that the people who were not there want to write the history, and refuse to listen to the person who actually discovered the collection. Keep on pushing, as the truth always rises to the top...."

One such path inside that cesspool of manipulated comics history over the CGC "chat" rooms has been to attack with attempts to denigrate my own intimate knowledge wisdom of what many claim is the second best "pedigree" collection ever unearthed in our collective recorded history of "organized" comics fandom. The Tom Reilly Collection.

Their obsessed listings etc et al of what they tout as the "small" Reilly collection does NOT include the Detective Comics #27 1939 Batman I sold to Burrell Rowe then of Houston in late May 1973 for $2200.

This Tec 27 sale then became the very first comic book in the world to sell for more than two grand. 

The sale hit AP/UPI carried by over 200 newspapers nationwide. The "news" on this Tec 27 Reilly copy sale for $2200 even was carried as far away as Germany. Germans began contacting us wanting to buy and sell. As did Brits.

Joel Thingvall wrote, "...I always liked the concept of newspaper articles touting bam zap pow prices paid for comics as it was essentially free advertising of one as a buyer of old comics and the gems did come in. One could never afford that kind of coverage. Like Antique Roadshow and the ilk the job was to create an entity who “might” pay big bucks for your stuff....

"...Sad to say 90% of the stuff people brought in was of lesser quality and more often than not people would take what you offered if somewhat understandingly fair than return home with the stuff or even seek out another opinion in those days of yore...."

Nor does either the Matt Nelson and/or West Stephens ``list" have the Reilly Whiz Comics #2 1940 (actually #1) NM which the week before Burrell Rowe called me at 2512 Telegraph Ave in Berkeley Calif at our first Comics and Comix store offering me $2000 for that copy. I accepted.

Nor do their lists have the Tom Reilly Mystery Men #1 NM 1939 Fox on it, much less the entire run which was present as were runs of virtually all the comics.

Like I write in my opening stream of consciousness thoughts, about 90% of all the Reilly books had ZERO markings either back cover stamp and/or Gilboy "G" distributor markings. 

Just like most all the Tom Reilly copies of Detective Comics #27 29 on, Whiz 2 (#1) on, 

Marvel Mystery #4 began on, Mystery Men #1 on, Flash Comics #1 on, Zip Comics #1 on, etc etc etc as random example. They simply are bereft of easy to ID markings.

Superman began with #3 thru mid summer 1945. The Superman 3 and 4 were the lowest grades of the entire collection. And were the last to sell. In January 1974 Mark Edmonds moved into San Francisco buying both to fill in holes in his run he was then building.

You think of a title summer 1939 thru summer 1945. Almost all copies were within all three batches if they were all put together.

We actually DOWNgraded those with "markings" and anchor stamps on the back cover having writing on the covers. At the time customers were squawking over such "defects." 

Simple fact remains the overwhelming vast majority of the Tom Reilly collection had no anchor stamp and/or distributor marks on them. I downgraded translating into lower price. The same as having writing marks on the covers.

When we got in those three batches of the Tom Reilly collection back in April, then May, then June 1973, that was the super amazing aspect of opening up each issue. That powder drying stuff the printers placed on the paper to dry the cover inks faster.

That unique swoosh sound popping each "cherry" - we got so we did not look inside some of them (no need) and as a heavy hitter guy came in, would pull out one of the virgins to sacrifice on the altar.

Doing that wowed and pizazzed the right kind of guy when they were hit with the OPG #3 prices I was placing on these special puppies. 

Close to 4000 white paper high grades most all of them post Dec 1941 never opened all thru summer 1945. Till we did in 1973.Sure were fun days of daze to think back on.

The "experts" on this over inside the CGC slab houses are delusional arrogantly trying to be smarter in knowing their vintage comics. I laugh at them.

The Tom Reilly collection ran from summer 1939 thru summer 1945 when Tom Reilly was killed in a kamikaze attack out in the Pacific. His parents had bought him one of each placing into his bedroom when he enlisted Dec 1941.

Especially insisting on calling them "San Francisco" when the damned books were never in San Francisco except some placed on the wall in our second Comics & Comic location at 730 Columbus Ave down from North Beach heading towards Fisherman's Wharf. 

The road to Tom Reilly's collection his parents bought for him "San Francisco" begins because back in the mid-70s then LA-based Ronald Pussell said to Robert Overstreet half a decade after the collection surfaced he had been buying high grade from a "Frisco" collection not knowing then any of the back story.

Ronald Pussell wrote, "...  I started as a dealer and set up at SD Con in 1976 years before I ever saw any Reilly books. I never TOLD Bob Overstreet to call them SF copies. When I showed Bob his first Reilly books, I told them I bought them from a collection in SF. It was Bob and other collectors that turned it into what is today called the SF books...."

Those insufficiently_thoughtful_persons in that CGC cesspool chat board when you signed up to chat there a couple months back after going through your liver transplant woes truly got my attention because they declared you “the expert ''having “named” the collection San Francisco copies. Remember? We joked and laughed at their inanities on the phone.

"Ron Pussell wrote, "....When I first showed Bob Overstreet the books at a NYC Creation Con, I told Bob these were not the MH copies. I told him that they are from a SF collection, which I thought was true at the time. I had obtained these books from Dave Belmont. I never told Bob to name all these books the SF copies....

"....Tom Reilly should get at least the same respect as Edgar Church. I still hold out hope Steve Borock at CBCS corrects this travesty. 

One day Steve Geppi hopefully pushes his Overstreet team to use the proper name. Maybe James Halperin at Heritage? Or maybe even Conan Saunders inside his fine web site MyComicShop dot com he built for his father &N mother.

The CGC crowd chooses to remain ignorant having begun the initial encapsulation slabbing pushing 20 years ago now. Over in CGC-land as well as these days also at CBCS self-proclaimed "experts" in what the "new school" of collecting touts as "pedigree" in arrogant attempts at controlling the narrative.

So as to enhance their BS pulled on outside "investor" lost souls who in turn insanely jack up prices on the "high end" material as they also manipulate the psychology of 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.0 upon these (Whale) Rubes wandering in to their Comics Carny.

Johnnie Reisler  , "...I'm with Bob here. The man is a professor emeritus of comicdom. Six decades of experience should not be discounted. Many may find a clash with him, but his knowledge of the facts as well as the medium in general is undeniable. He was there. It's time that those with agendas stop with their revisionist histories...."

In the meantime I have no dog in this race other than honor and factual history simply because I have no copies of the Tom Reilly collection which many state case by case in the main are structurally better, whiter paper even, than the Edgar Church collection. 

We sold them all in 1973 inside our first Comics and Comix which enabled us to open three more Comics & Comix stores within four months. 

The ensuing national PR AP/UPI newspaper & TV stories brought us in three more Detective Comics #27 that summer amongst the hundreds of collections which came in the door.

Tom Reilly paid the ultimate sacrifice for our country in summer 1945.He should be remembered thusly if at least nothing else having his comic book collection remembered with his name on the little sticker tags on the clear plastic coffins which protects what his parents bought for him. The books were simply never in Lost San Francisco. 

And my little contribution of sharing what I gleaned from the three batches of relatives which wandered through my life when I bought most of the collection from them with my then partners in Comics & Comix. . 

Tom's parents had bought all those books waiting for their son to come home from war. Then they sealed his room till their death in Dec 1972. What I never asked was how they died. I got the impression back then that it was a traffic accident.

 

[buttock]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:59 AM, waaaghboss said:

Slightly related, I read a long screed on FB yesterday about the SF pedigree not being from SF, by the guy who supposedly purchased it originally.   Was interesting, but had a real chip on the shoulder feel to it.  

Here it is if anyone's bored.

  Hide contents

The Tom Reilly collection numbers well over 3500 comic books upwards of 4000 separate issues. Around 10% (maybe a smidge more) by my expert estimation at the time in 1973 based on the simple fact of having "been there" had the anchor stamp on the back cover and/or the Gilboy G dealer marks. Period.

TOM REILLY COLLECTION has brought out a lot of arrogance and insipid attacks from younger whippersnappers who think they are "experts" in the world of comics touting themselves as same in order to elevate their personal hype-meters so they can easier bamboozle the "investment" crowd which has been funneling many millions of dollars in to comic books. 

Chuck Sycamore wrote, ".... Thanks for putting forth the truth. It’s amazing to me that the people who were not there want to write the history, and refuse to listen to the person who actually discovered the collection. Keep on pushing, as the truth always rises to the top...."

One such path inside that cesspool of manipulated comics history over the CGC "chat" rooms has been to attack with attempts to denigrate my own intimate knowledge wisdom of what many claim is the second best "pedigree" collection ever unearthed in our collective recorded history of "organized" comics fandom. The Tom Reilly Collection.

Their obsessed listings etc et al of what they tout as the "small" Reilly collection does NOT include the Detective Comics #27 1939 Batman I sold to Burrell Rowe then of Houston in late May 1973 for $2200.

This Tec 27 sale then became the very first comic book in the world to sell for more than two grand. 

The sale hit AP/UPI carried by over 200 newspapers nationwide. The "news" on this Tec 27 Reilly copy sale for $2200 even was carried as far away as Germany. Germans began contacting us wanting to buy and sell. As did Brits.

Joel Thingvall wrote, "...I always liked the concept of newspaper articles touting bam zap pow prices paid for comics as it was essentially free advertising of one as a buyer of old comics and the gems did come in. One could never afford that kind of coverage. Like Antique Roadshow and the ilk the job was to create an entity who “might” pay big bucks for your stuff....

"...Sad to say 90% of the stuff people brought in was of lesser quality and more often than not people would take what you offered if somewhat understandingly fair than return home with the stuff or even seek out another opinion in those days of yore...."

Nor does either the Matt Nelson and/or West Stephens ``list" have the Reilly Whiz Comics #2 1940 (actually #1) NM which the week before Burrell Rowe called me at 2512 Telegraph Ave in Berkeley Calif at our first Comics and Comix store offering me $2000 for that copy. I accepted.

Nor do their lists have the Tom Reilly Mystery Men #1 NM 1939 Fox on it, much less the entire run which was present as were runs of virtually all the comics.

Like I write in my opening stream of consciousness thoughts, about 90% of all the Reilly books had ZERO markings either back cover stamp and/or Gilboy "G" distributor markings. 

Just like most all the Tom Reilly copies of Detective Comics #27 29 on, Whiz 2 (#1) on, 

Marvel Mystery #4 began on, Mystery Men #1 on, Flash Comics #1 on, Zip Comics #1 on, etc etc etc as random example. They simply are bereft of easy to ID markings.

Superman began with #3 thru mid summer 1945. The Superman 3 and 4 were the lowest grades of the entire collection. And were the last to sell. In January 1974 Mark Edmonds moved into San Francisco buying both to fill in holes in his run he was then building.

You think of a title summer 1939 thru summer 1945. Almost all copies were within all three batches if they were all put together.

We actually DOWNgraded those with "markings" and anchor stamps on the back cover having writing on the covers. At the time customers were squawking over such "defects." 

Simple fact remains the overwhelming vast majority of the Tom Reilly collection had no anchor stamp and/or distributor marks on them. I downgraded translating into lower price. The same as having writing marks on the covers.

When we got in those three batches of the Tom Reilly collection back in April, then May, then June 1973, that was the super amazing aspect of opening up each issue. That powder drying stuff the printers placed on the paper to dry the cover inks faster.

That unique swoosh sound popping each "cherry" - we got so we did not look inside some of them (no need) and as a heavy hitter guy came in, would pull out one of the virgins to sacrifice on the altar.

Doing that wowed and pizazzed the right kind of guy when they were hit with the OPG #3 prices I was placing on these special puppies. 

Close to 4000 white paper high grades most all of them post Dec 1941 never opened all thru summer 1945. Till we did in 1973.Sure were fun days of daze to think back on.

The "experts" on this over inside the CGC slab houses are delusional arrogantly trying to be smarter in knowing their vintage comics. I laugh at them.

The Tom Reilly collection ran from summer 1939 thru summer 1945 when Tom Reilly was killed in a kamikaze attack out in the Pacific. His parents had bought him one of each placing into his bedroom when he enlisted Dec 1941.

Especially insisting on calling them "San Francisco" when the damned books were never in San Francisco except some placed on the wall in our second Comics & Comic location at 730 Columbus Ave down from North Beach heading towards Fisherman's Wharf. 

The road to Tom Reilly's collection his parents bought for him "San Francisco" begins because back in the mid-70s then LA-based Ronald Pussell said to Robert Overstreet half a decade after the collection surfaced he had been buying high grade from a "Frisco" collection not knowing then any of the back story.

Ronald Pussell wrote, "...  I started as a dealer and set up at SD Con in 1976 years before I ever saw any Reilly books. I never TOLD Bob Overstreet to call them SF copies. When I showed Bob his first Reilly books, I told them I bought them from a collection in SF. It was Bob and other collectors that turned it into what is today called the SF books...."

Those insufficiently_thoughtful_persons in that CGC cesspool chat board when you signed up to chat there a couple months back after going through your liver transplant woes truly got my attention because they declared you “the expert ''having “named” the collection San Francisco copies. Remember? We joked and laughed at their inanities on the phone.

"Ron Pussell wrote, "....When I first showed Bob Overstreet the books at a NYC Creation Con, I told Bob these were not the MH copies. I told him that they are from a SF collection, which I thought was true at the time. I had obtained these books from Dave Belmont. I never told Bob to name all these books the SF copies....

"....Tom Reilly should get at least the same respect as Edgar Church. I still hold out hope Steve Borock at CBCS corrects this travesty. 

One day Steve Geppi hopefully pushes his Overstreet team to use the proper name. Maybe James Halperin at Heritage? Or maybe even Conan Saunders inside his fine web site MyComicShop dot com he built for his father &N mother.

The CGC crowd chooses to remain ignorant having begun the initial encapsulation slabbing pushing 20 years ago now. Over in CGC-land as well as these days also at CBCS self-proclaimed "experts" in what the "new school" of collecting touts as "pedigree" in arrogant attempts at controlling the narrative.

So as to enhance their BS pulled on outside "investor" lost souls who in turn insanely jack up prices on the "high end" material as they also manipulate the psychology of 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.0 upon these (Whale) Rubes wandering in to their Comics Carny.

Johnnie Reisler  , "...I'm with Bob here. The man is a professor emeritus of comicdom. Six decades of experience should not be discounted. Many may find a clash with him, but his knowledge of the facts as well as the medium in general is undeniable. He was there. It's time that those with agendas stop with their revisionist histories...."

In the meantime I have no dog in this race other than honor and factual history simply because I have no copies of the Tom Reilly collection which many state case by case in the main are structurally better, whiter paper even, than the Edgar Church collection. 

We sold them all in 1973 inside our first Comics and Comix which enabled us to open three more Comics & Comix stores within four months. 

The ensuing national PR AP/UPI newspaper & TV stories brought us in three more Detective Comics #27 that summer amongst the hundreds of collections which came in the door.

Tom Reilly paid the ultimate sacrifice for our country in summer 1945.He should be remembered thusly if at least nothing else having his comic book collection remembered with his name on the little sticker tags on the clear plastic coffins which protects what his parents bought for him. The books were simply never in Lost San Francisco. 

And my little contribution of sharing what I gleaned from the three batches of relatives which wandered through my life when I bought most of the collection from them with my then partners in Comics & Comix. . 

Tom's parents had bought all those books waiting for their son to come home from war. Then they sealed his room till their death in Dec 1972. What I never asked was how they died. I got the impression back then that it was a traffic accident.

 

So now Bob is claiming that "Tom Reilly" died in a traffic accident?  

[waaaghboss]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:05 AM, buttock said:

So now Bob is claiming that "Tom Reilly" died in a traffic accident?  

I believe he says at some point that he was shot down in the pacific, and that his parents died in a traffic accident.

I enjoyed reading it, don't get me wrong, as I always get a kick out of reading about comic collecting from the old days, but he really undermines his own take with his constant sniping. Just seems really immature.

 

I also got a kick out of him complaining about kids investing in comics today while at the same time bragging about how much he was selling these books for.

[quicksilver]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:59 PM, waaaghboss said:

Slightly related, I read a long screed on FB yesterday about the SF pedigree not being from SF, by the guy who supposedly purchased it originally.   Was interesting, but had a real chip on the shoulder feel to it.  

Here it is if anyone's bored.

  Reveal hidden contents

The Tom Reilly collection numbers well over 3500 comic books upwards of 4000 separate issues. Around 10% (maybe a smidge more) by my expert estimation at the time in 1973 based on the simple fact of having "been there" had the anchor stamp on the back cover and/or the Gilboy G dealer marks. Period.

TOM REILLY COLLECTION has brought out a lot of arrogance and insipid attacks from younger whippersnappers who think they are "experts" in the world of comics touting themselves as same in order to elevate their personal hype-meters so they can easier bamboozle the "investment" crowd which has been funneling many millions of dollars in to comic books. 

Chuck Sycamore wrote, ".... Thanks for putting forth the truth. It’s amazing to me that the people who were not there want to write the history, and refuse to listen to the person who actually discovered the collection. Keep on pushing, as the truth always rises to the top...."

One such path inside that cesspool of manipulated comics history over the CGC "chat" rooms has been to attack with attempts to denigrate my own intimate knowledge wisdom of what many claim is the second best "pedigree" collection ever unearthed in our collective recorded history of "organized" comics fandom. The Tom Reilly Collection.

Their obsessed listings etc et al of what they tout as the "small" Reilly collection does NOT include the Detective Comics #27 1939 Batman I sold to Burrell Rowe then of Houston in late May 1973 for $2200.

This Tec 27 sale then became the very first comic book in the world to sell for more than two grand. 

The sale hit AP/UPI carried by over 200 newspapers nationwide. The "news" on this Tec 27 Reilly copy sale for $2200 even was carried as far away as Germany. Germans began contacting us wanting to buy and sell. As did Brits.

Joel Thingvall wrote, "...I always liked the concept of newspaper articles touting bam zap pow prices paid for comics as it was essentially free advertising of one as a buyer of old comics and the gems did come in. One could never afford that kind of coverage. Like Antique Roadshow and the ilk the job was to create an entity who “might” pay big bucks for your stuff....

"...Sad to say 90% of the stuff people brought in was of lesser quality and more often than not people would take what you offered if somewhat understandingly fair than return home with the stuff or even seek out another opinion in those days of yore...."

Nor does either the Matt Nelson and/or West Stephens ``list" have the Reilly Whiz Comics #2 1940 (actually #1) NM which the week before Burrell Rowe called me at 2512 Telegraph Ave in Berkeley Calif at our first Comics and Comix store offering me $2000 for that copy. I accepted.

Nor do their lists have the Tom Reilly Mystery Men #1 NM 1939 Fox on it, much less the entire run which was present as were runs of virtually all the comics.

Like I write in my opening stream of consciousness thoughts, about 90% of all the Reilly books had ZERO markings either back cover stamp and/or Gilboy "G" distributor markings. 

Just like most all the Tom Reilly copies of Detective Comics #27 29 on, Whiz 2 (#1) on, 

Marvel Mystery #4 began on, Mystery Men #1 on, Flash Comics #1 on, Zip Comics #1 on, etc etc etc as random example. They simply are bereft of easy to ID markings.

Superman began with #3 thru mid summer 1945. The Superman 3 and 4 were the lowest grades of the entire collection. And were the last to sell. In January 1974 Mark Edmonds moved into San Francisco buying both to fill in holes in his run he was then building.

You think of a title summer 1939 thru summer 1945. Almost all copies were within all three batches if they were all put together.

We actually DOWNgraded those with "markings" and anchor stamps on the back cover having writing on the covers. At the time customers were squawking over such "defects." 

Simple fact remains the overwhelming vast majority of the Tom Reilly collection had no anchor stamp and/or distributor marks on them. I downgraded translating into lower price. The same as having writing marks on the covers.

When we got in those three batches of the Tom Reilly collection back in April, then May, then June 1973, that was the super amazing aspect of opening up each issue. That powder drying stuff the printers placed on the paper to dry the cover inks faster.

That unique swoosh sound popping each "cherry" - we got so we did not look inside some of them (no need) and as a heavy hitter guy came in, would pull out one of the virgins to sacrifice on the altar.

Doing that wowed and pizazzed the right kind of guy when they were hit with the OPG #3 prices I was placing on these special puppies. 

Close to 4000 white paper high grades most all of them post Dec 1941 never opened all thru summer 1945. Till we did in 1973.Sure were fun days of daze to think back on.

The "experts" on this over inside the CGC slab houses are delusional arrogantly trying to be smarter in knowing their vintage comics. I laugh at them.

The Tom Reilly collection ran from summer 1939 thru summer 1945 when Tom Reilly was killed in a kamikaze attack out in the Pacific. His parents had bought him one of each placing into his bedroom when he enlisted Dec 1941.

Especially insisting on calling them "San Francisco" when the damned books were never in San Francisco except some placed on the wall in our second Comics & Comic location at 730 Columbus Ave down from North Beach heading towards Fisherman's Wharf. 

The road to Tom Reilly's collection his parents bought for him "San Francisco" begins because back in the mid-70s then LA-based Ronald Pussell said to Robert Overstreet half a decade after the collection surfaced he had been buying high grade from a "Frisco" collection not knowing then any of the back story.

Ronald Pussell wrote, "...  I started as a dealer and set up at SD Con in 1976 years before I ever saw any Reilly books. I never TOLD Bob Overstreet to call them SF copies. When I showed Bob his first Reilly books, I told them I bought them from a collection in SF. It was Bob and other collectors that turned it into what is today called the SF books...."

Those insufficiently_thoughtful_persons in that CGC cesspool chat board when you signed up to chat there a couple months back after going through your liver transplant woes truly got my attention because they declared you “the expert ''having “named” the collection San Francisco copies. Remember? We joked and laughed at their inanities on the phone.

"Ron Pussell wrote, "....When I first showed Bob Overstreet the books at a NYC Creation Con, I told Bob these were not the MH copies. I told him that they are from a SF collection, which I thought was true at the time. I had obtained these books from Dave Belmont. I never told Bob to name all these books the SF copies....

"....Tom Reilly should get at least the same respect as Edgar Church. I still hold out hope Steve Borock at CBCS corrects this travesty. 

One day Steve Geppi hopefully pushes his Overstreet team to use the proper name. Maybe James Halperin at Heritage? Or maybe even Conan Saunders inside his fine web site MyComicShop dot com he built for his father &N mother.

The CGC crowd chooses to remain ignorant having begun the initial encapsulation slabbing pushing 20 years ago now. Over in CGC-land as well as these days also at CBCS self-proclaimed "experts" in what the "new school" of collecting touts as "pedigree" in arrogant attempts at controlling the narrative.

So as to enhance their BS pulled on outside "investor" lost souls who in turn insanely jack up prices on the "high end" material as they also manipulate the psychology of 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.0 upon these (Whale) Rubes wandering in to their Comics Carny.

Johnnie Reisler  , "...I'm with Bob here. The man is a professor emeritus of comicdom. Six decades of experience should not be discounted. Many may find a clash with him, but his knowledge of the facts as well as the medium in general is undeniable. He was there. It's time that those with agendas stop with their revisionist histories...."

In the meantime I have no dog in this race other than honor and factual history simply because I have no copies of the Tom Reilly collection which many state case by case in the main are structurally better, whiter paper even, than the Edgar Church collection. 

We sold them all in 1973 inside our first Comics and Comix which enabled us to open three more Comics & Comix stores within four months. 

The ensuing national PR AP/UPI newspaper & TV stories brought us in three more Detective Comics #27 that summer amongst the hundreds of collections which came in the door.

Tom Reilly paid the ultimate sacrifice for our country in summer 1945.He should be remembered thusly if at least nothing else having his comic book collection remembered with his name on the little sticker tags on the clear plastic coffins which protects what his parents bought for him. The books were simply never in Lost San Francisco. 

And my little contribution of sharing what I gleaned from the three batches of relatives which wandered through my life when I bought most of the collection from them with my then partners in Comics & Comix. . 

Tom's parents had bought all those books waiting for their son to come home from war. Then they sealed his room till their death in Dec 1972. What I never asked was how they died. I got the impression back then that it was a traffic accident.

 

Beerbong again…?

[buttock]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:15 AM, waaaghboss said:

I believe he says at some point that he was shot down in the pacific, and that his parents died in a traffic accident.

I enjoyed reading it, don't get me wrong, as I always get a kick out of reading about comic collecting from the old days, but he really undermines his own take with his constant sniping. Just seems really immature.

 

I also got a kick out of him complaining about kids investing in comics today while at the same time bragging about how much he was selling these books for.

Yeah, that's always been his story.  Then at the very end he says now that he thinks he died in a traffic accident.  This is the first time he's ever said that and must be because nobody has been able to verify his other story.  

[waaaghboss]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:39 AM, buttock said:

Yeah, that's always been his story.  Then at the very end he says now that he thinks he died in a traffic accident.  This is the first time he's ever said that and must be because nobody has been able to verify his other story.  

When you say how he died are you talking about the parents? He says Tom passed away in a kamikaze attack, and I understand correctly he thinks the parents died in a traffic accident in the 70s.

 

To be fair, after reading through it the first time it's a bit of a chore to skim and see if I'm remembering correctly.  😀 

[rjpb]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:44 AM, waaaghboss said:

When you say how he died are you talking about the parents? He says Tom passed away in a kamikaze attack, and I understand correctly he thinks the parents died in a traffic accident in the 70s.

 

To be fair, after reading through it the first time it's a bit of a chore to skim and see if I'm remembering correctly.  😀 

It's pretty clear he thinks the parents died in a traffic accident in 1972, so presumably it was other family members who brought the collection to Beerbohm after they died. I understand his wanting to correct the record as to preferring the pedigree be referred to as the O'Reilly pedigree and not the San Francisco pedigree, but his constant grousing about everyone else in the hobby alienates people. I get the impression he's just cranky he didn't salt away more of the incredible books that passed through his hands in the 70s until they became far more valuable. 

[buttock]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:44 AM, waaaghboss said:

When you say how he died are you talking about the parents? He says Tom passed away in a kamikaze attack, and I understand correctly he thinks the parents died in a traffic accident in the 70s.

 

To be fair, after reading through it the first time it's a bit of a chore to skim and see if I'm remembering correctly.  😀 

Ah, gotcha.  That makes more sense. 

[buttock]

On 11/24/2021 at 12:17 PM, rjpb said:

It's pretty clear he thinks the parents died in a traffic accident in 1972, so presumably it was other family members who brought the collection to Beerbohm after they died. I understand his wanting to correct the record as to preferring the pedigree be referred to as the O'Reilly pedigree and not the San Francisco pedigree, but his constant grousing about everyone else in the hobby alienates people. I get the impression he's just cranky he didn't salt away more of the incredible books that passed through his hands in the 70s until they became far more valuable. 

I think it's more that he wants people to worship him for his "contributions" to the hobby.  He doesn't realize his awful behavior, arrogance, and petulance makes nobody respect him.  

[Dr. Love]

On 11/24/2021 at 12:08 PM, buttock said:

I think it's more that he wants people to worship him for his "contributions" to the hobby.  He doesn't realize his awful behavior, arrogance, and petulance makes nobody respect him.  

Mehdy loves him some Beery

[Cat-Man_America]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:08 PM, buttock said:

I think it's more that he wants people to worship him for his "contributions" to the hobby.  He doesn't realize his awful behavior, arrogance, and petulance makes nobody respect him.  

There's some truth to this as undoubtably there's truth in what Bob has advocated.  What's a shame is that it's gotten so muddled that no one can be absolutely sure of any facts beyond the books being beautiful high quality examples.

The Reilly stamps on the back of many SF pedigreed books seems to suggest that Tom Reilly is the proper designation, but this only serves to heighten the unresolved mystery.  No one has been able to ascertain whether a Tom Reilly served and died at the end of the war based on records which seems odd and curious.  It's logical that the collection ceasing at the end of the war suggests part of this story is true, but what if the family name was something else? What if the Reilly stamps were merely a location ...drugstore or newsstand... where the books were bought before being meticulously stored by the parents?  Or what if the books belonged to Tom Reilly, but he served under an assumed name because he enlisted underage? What if the relatives initially selling this collection to Bob and his partners made up part of the story because there was some question of ownership? Or just out of privacy concerns?

A lot of the pieces of this puzzle don't fit and too many missing pieces to establish one clear timeline.  I have no doubt that Bob's involvement in purchasing the books and other insights are credible, regardless of how cantankerous he gets over the absolute correctness of his own opinions about how this collection came to be.  But there is so much about the origins that aren't fully known that one tale is almost as good as another in lieu of ironclad documented evidence.  

[RareHighGrade]

One of the interesting assertions in Bob's rant is that only 10% of the SF books had the stamp or distributor mark.  If that's true, many of us are holding SF books without knowing the provenance.  It's also interesting that he refers to the stamp as an "anchor stamp," rather than a "Reilly stamp," meaning the stamp is not supposed to say "Reilly."  

[buttock]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:46 PM, RareHighGrade said:

One of the interesting assertions in Bob's rant is that only 10% of the SF books had the stamp or distributor mark.  If that's true, many of us are holding SF books without knowing the provenance.  It's also interesting that he refers to the stamp as an "anchor stamp," rather than a "Reilly stamp," meaning the stamp is not supposed to say "Reilly."  

I can't see "Reilly" for certain in it.  I've said this before.  

[Straw-Man]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:08 PM, buttock said:

I think it's more that he wants people to worship him for his "contributions" to the hobby.  He doesn't realize his awful behavior, arrogance, and petulance makes nobody respect him.  

he puts the turd in turducken.  

[Straw-Man]

that will be ravaged by about 2 pm tomorrow.  

[Cat-Man_America]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:08 PM, buttock said:

I can't see "Reilly" for certain in it.  I've said this before.  

It's one of those great mysteries of life I suppose.  

I used to own a copy of Military with two of those stamps on the back and will post the back cover below.  It seems illogical that the owner would double stamp his own book.  It's more logical that a distributor or store would accidentally stamp a book twice while doing a bunch of copies.  Whether the word stamped is Reilly or a boat anchor is another topic altogether, but it looks more like a "T" or other mark (indecipherable) followed by "Reilly" the "R" being upper case...

[Cat-Man_America]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:18 PM, Straw-Man said:

he puts the turd in turducken.  

Darn you, Billy! I thought that was a disgusting idea till I read the ingredients, ...now I'm salivating.  

On 11/24/2021 at 7:19 PM, Straw-Man said:

that will be ravaged by about 2 pm tomorrow.