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Is Detective Comics 523 (1st Killer Croc) rare in 9.8 or just not popular?
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29 posts in this topic

I was trying to find how much Detective Comics 523 was worth in 9.8 but couldn't find sold listings on e-bay. And then I checked the census and found that only 47 were graded 9.8 by CGC. Sounds very low for a key book from that era. Hence my question, is this book actually rare in 9.8? Or is there not much interest to get it graded? 

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On 12/3/2021 at 12:25 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

This one ends tomorrow - it's $299 plus $40 shipping with no bids yet: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284544960686?hash=item42403388ae:g:2CcAAOSwWzlhobLh

I know, I saw that one. Hence my question. If there are no bids, then must we assume it's worth less? I see no records of previously sold ones.

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On 12/2/2021 at 10:40 PM, William-James88 said:

I know, I saw that one. Hence my question. If there are no bids, then must we assume it's worth less? I see no records of previously sold ones.

The $40 shipping and the sellers reputation might have something to do with it. I thought dylan worked out of Long Island, not California.

I have a half dozen or more of most Detetectives in the 500-600 range. Until one pops, they aren't worth slabbing. For example, when Batman 313 blew up, I had three copies plus a Whitman.  Rather than miss the bandwagon, I sold them all raw.

Edited by shadroch
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On 12/3/2021 at 9:49 AM, shadroch said:

The $40 shipping and the sellers reputation might have something to do with it. I thought dylan worked out of Long Island, not California.

HAHAHAHA

And smart for selling those raw. Man I think instead of the people who submitted to CGC and ended up with a 9 month wait time.

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On 12/3/2021 at 9:36 AM, comicartfan said:

Must be because he's charging $40 for shipping :whatthe:


Agreed $40 for shipping within in CONUS is a leading reason eBay decided to take a chunk of the shipping charges a decade ago. The absurd $40 shipping fee is also taxable for those subject to a sales tax. Thus it's more like $42.50-$44.00 for shipping!

Also:

1) Book is being referred to as a newsstand in the description which it clearly is not.
2) Issue is not recognized by most as the 1st Killer Croc.
3) It's DC thus lower level of interest.
4) 80's Batman titles may be near the tops for DC titles but if Marvel it would be a B or C level.  Croc is a B rate DC villain at absolute best, thus equal at best to a D level Marvel Spidey villain in terms of general interest.
5) Sad truth is never ever buy a  DC after a book gets hot. More times than not it's a lo$ing proposition. The only way to avoid falling into the red at some point is not to buy Graded DC issues after they separate from the pack.

 

Edited by MAR1979
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On 12/3/2021 at 8:49 AM, shadroch said:

The $40 shipping and the sellers reputation might have something to do with it.

I was about to say the same thing - a lot of times a high starting bid and a high shipping cost will leave an item sitting, even if it's within the acceptable range (or sometimes below) of FMV.

A 524 (CGC notes it as "Killer Croc appearance") in a 9.8 recently sold for $490, and high grade raws of 524 usually sell for a bit higher than 523 for some reason. So 523 in a 9.8 is likely somewhere in that $300-400 range.

Batman 357 is what CGC notes as 1st Croc and 1st Jason Todd - I know we had that whole breakdown of why they're wrong before - and that book is over a grand in a 9.8.

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On 12/3/2021 at 10:24 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

I was about to say the same thing - a lot of times a high starting bid and a high shipping cost will leave an item sitting, even if it's within the acceptable range (or sometimes below) of FMV.

A 524 (CGC notes it as "Killer Croc appearance") in a 9.8 recently sold for $490, and high grade raws of 524 usually sell for a bit higher than 523 for some reason. So 523 in a 9.8 is likely somewhere in that $300-400 range.

Batman 357 is what CGC notes as 1st Croc and 1st Jason Todd - I know we had that whole breakdown of why they're wrong before - and that book is over a grand in a 9.8.

Thanks. Jason Todd is super hot right now, so I totally get Batman 357 being that expensive. He completely carries that book as the lower prices of Detective 523 and 524 show the lesser interest in Croc.

And maybe that's why 524 is hotter, it's a key book for Jason Todd.

On 12/3/2021 at 10:17 AM, MAR1979 said:

2) It's DC thus lower level of interest.
3) 80's Batman titles may be near the tops for DC titles but if Marvel it would be a B or C level.  Croc is a B rate DC villain at absolute best, thus equal at best to a D level Marvel Spidey villain in terms of general interest.
4) Sad truth is never ever buy a  DC after a book gets hot. More times than not it's a lo$ing proposition. The only way to avoid falling into the red at some point is not to buy Graded DC issues after they separate from the pack.

 

As a big DC fan, this is super depressing. But at least we have the Golden Age.

Edited by William-James88
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On 12/3/2021 at 11:24 AM, William-James88 said:

Thanks. Jason Todd is super hot right now, so I totally get Batman 357 being that expensive. He completely carries that book as the lower prices of Detective 523 and 524 show the lesser interest in Croc.

And maybe that's why 524 is hotter, it's a key book for Jason Todd.

As a big DC fan, this is super depressing. But at least we have the Golden Age.

Been mostly a DC fan sine I was in my teens, I've learned the hard way never, ever, never, ever buy a DC unless you love the book and will be happy down the road having overpaid. Buying a DC either  virtually never pans out fiscally.

Due to huge demand you can make mistakes with Marvel and still come out "ahead" with DC that is almost never the case. The ceiling for a Marvel mid-level hot-ish book will dwarf a DC "hot book".

As for Jason Todd being "hot"; again it's DC, to purchase after price has gone up is never wise.

As with any collectibles rule there will always be outliers but smart money does not depend on getting lucky with an outlier. Smart money buys Marvel, suckers purchase Copper age or later DC after a book has broke loose of the common pack.

 

Edited by MAR1979
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On 12/4/2021 at 2:24 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

 

Batman 357 is what CGC notes as 1st Croc and 1st Jason Todd - I know we had that whole breakdown of why they're wrong before - and that book is over a grand in a 9.8.

Do you have a link to that debate please?

Interested in learning more.

Thanks. (thumbsu

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Since the time of that old thread, I picked up a nice raw Tec 523 on the boards for a decent price, a nice-looking raw 524 on eBay for a really nice price, and I also got a relatively cheap auction win on DIG Auctions on a Batman 357 8.0 CGC that is in the mail on its way to me now. I paid less than current raw prices in-grade on the 8.0 - I figured I should jump on it since I didn't own a copy at all...

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On 12/3/2021 at 7:14 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

Since the time of that old thread, I picked up a nice raw Tec 523 on the boards for a decent price, a nice-looking raw 524 on eBay for a really nice price, and I also got a relatively cheap auction win on DIG Auctions on a Batman 357 8.0 CGC that is in the mail on its way to me now. I paid less than current raw prices in-grade on the 8.0 - I figured I should jump on it since I didn't own a copy at all...

 

On 12/3/2021 at 7:05 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

Yeah, for sure!

 

That thread seems like forever ago lol

Only in May doh!

I had a raw and thought it was flawless of tec 523, submitted it and got only 6.5. I kind of got disgusted with that book as a result.

Never fear, due to that thread it was always in the back of my mind, and I upgraded to a 9.0.

I mean it's still nice enough I guess, but the fair price was the thing that put it in the "get one" column. I still like batman 357, personally, but can see the obstacles. There is for sure more to get, to get the full story and I'm ok with that. I still only have the bats 357 and 2 copies of tec 523 :)

Take what you can get kind of thing. :shy:

 

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
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On 12/3/2021 at 10:57 AM, MAR1979 said:

Been mostly a DC fan sine I was in my teens, I've learned the hard way never, ever, never, ever buy a DC unless you love the book and will be happy down the road having overpaid. Buying a DC either  virtually never pans out fiscally.

Due to huge demand you can make mistakes with Marvel and still come out "ahead" with DC that is almost never the case. The ceiling for a Marvel mid-level hot-ish book will dwarf a DC "hot book".

As for Jason Todd being "hot"; again it's DC, to purchase after price has gone up is never wise.

As with any collectibles rule there will always be outliers but smart money does not depend on getting luck with an outlier. Smart money buys Marvel suckers purchase Copper age or later DC after a book has broke loose of the common pack.

 

I agree with most of this, as much as it hurts to agree since I'm also a DC fan. I do think that there are possible deals to be had, especially on older DCs, if you get in at the right time - but I know people have said that forever too. But I bought an entry-level graded Tec 359 in 2021 before whatever movie hype started to bump that book a little, and I got it at a price that I shouldn't regret (especially since it's for the personal collection anyway).

It's crazy to think of how much a book like that with an equivalent character intro would cost if it was a Marvel.

And some of the newer stuff can still be found cheap-ish, although they're going up - I was able to find copies of Batman 655 last year for $15-20 in some cases. if you're patient and maybe a little lucky you can put together the whole Hush run (609-619) for under $50 or lower - I've bought multiple copies of 609 (first Hush) for under $10 each - and in some cases as low as $5 - in the past year. I've found first Ventriloquist/Scarface (Tec 583) for $10 at shows. As a Bat-fan, I've been able to find most of the Copper-Modern first appearances and major issues for fairly cheap. But I agree with you - if you try to spec on DC books for quick flips, you'll usually be sorry.

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On 12/3/2021 at 7:20 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

That thread seems like forever ago lol

Only in May doh!

I had a raw and thought it was flawless of tec 523, submitted it and got only 6.5. I kind of got disgusted with that book as a result.

Never fear, due to that thread it was always in the back of my mind, and I upgraded to a 9.0.

I mean it's still nice enough I guess, but the fair price was the thing that put it in the "get one" column. I still like batman 357, personally, but can see the obstacles. There is for sure more to get, to get the full story and I'm ok with that. I still only have the bats 357 and 2 copies of tec 523 :)

Take what you can get kind of thing. :shy:

 

I know, I actually thought it was from a year ago! Your 357 is a gorgeous copy though, and a CPV to boot! That 523 cover is tough because it's so busy that it hides flaws really well. I love that cover though. The 524 is tough because of the black. I never loved that cover, but it's actually growing on me. At that time, I only had the 358, but I got it in a cheap lot buy so it cost me about $3 I think (on average). But of course it then led me down the rabbit hole... xD

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On 12/3/2021 at 7:27 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

I know, I actually thought it was from a year ago! Your 357 is a gorgeous copy though, and a CPV to boot! That 523 cover is tough because it's so busy that it hides flaws really well. I love that cover though. The 524 is tough because of the black. I never loved that cover, but it's actually growing on me. At that time, I only had the 358, but I got it in a cheap lot buy so it cost me about $3 I think (on average). But of course it then led me down the rabbit hole... xD

Rabbit holes indeed! Lol

 

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On 12/3/2021 at 8:23 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

if you're patient and maybe a little lucky you can put together the whole Hush run (609-619) for under $50 or lower - I've bought multiple copies of 609 (first Hush) for under $10 each - and in some cases as low as $5 - in the past year. I've found first Ventriloquist/Scarface (Tec 583) for $10 at shows. As a Bat-fan, I've been able to find most of the Copper-Modern first appearances and major issues for fairly cheap. But I agree with you - if you try to spec on DC books for quick flips, you'll usually be sorry.

You are more patient and lucky than me, those are some great prices. How did you find all those 609s? That's an itneresting issue too since 609 is not he first appearance of Hush, but of Tommy Eliot, the guy most associated to Hush even though he is never Hush in that story (the big reveal was of another character).

and @ADAMANTIUM, I don't have all these croc books we discussed either. I have the 3 consecutive detectives, but I am missing Batman 357 and 358 (I do have 359 though). 357 seems more affordable than I remember now (anything aside 9.8), so I'll keep an eye out. They are fun to collect though. And quite the coincidence, I too had what I thought was a flawless 523. Sent it in and got 9.8. BUT I sent other stuff that I thought was high grade and which would have been waaaay pricier if the high grade was obtained, but CGC was really really tight on grading (even in golden age) and it was a bust.

Oh and I too dislike the cover for 524.

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On 12/3/2021 at 7:46 PM, William-James88 said:

You are more patient and lucky than me, those are some great prices. How did you find all those 609s? That's an itneresting issue too since 609 is not he first appearance of Hush, but of Tommy Eliot, the guy most associated to Hush even though he is never Hush in that story (the big reveal was of another character).

and @ADAMANTIUM, I don't have all these croc books we discussed either. I have the 3 consecutive detectives, but I am missing Batman 357 and 358 (I do have 359 though). 357 seems more affordable than I remember now (anything aside 9.8), so I'll keep an eye out. They are fun to collect though. And quite the coincidence, I too had what I thought was a flawless 523. Sent it in and got 9.8. BUT I sent other stuff that I thought was high grade and which would have been waaaay pricier if the high grade was obtained, but CGC was really really tight on grading (even in golden age) and it was a bust.

Oh and I too dislike the cover for 524.

Most definitely. I have a few books that the situation ruined the train of thought to collect a character or series. The tec was just the most memorable and I think the 1975 champions.

And still that's a lot of books :) and a good argument to own each of them (thumbsu

Still, I bombed on the tec 523, then found the 357 mislabeled CPU and had it reholdered for free somehow, so I was back on the trian. Just took a while, and thanks for the thread, it helped a lot ^^

 

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On 12/3/2021 at 8:23 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

It's crazy to think of how much a book like that with an equivalent character intro would cost if it was a Marvel.

Interesting notion. Who would be an equivalent Marvel character to Batgirl in terms of legacy/popularity within the brand? Thor? Black Widow? Daredevil?

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