CGC census numbering 3 3

[fifties]

I collect comic books in order to read them, and in doing so, when I have to pay a premium for a slabbed book that I want, it gets "jailbroken" ASAP.  I've cracked open several dozen slabbed books over the last few years.

So my question is, how would that affect the veracity of CGC's numbering system in the real world, when let's say there are "seven 4.0's", and in opening mine, I've now dropped that quantity to an actual six?

[Ryan.]

CGC requests that you send the labels back to them so they can update the census. 

[Randall Dowling]

On 12/15/2021 at 2:49 PM, fifties said:

I collect comic books in order to read them, and in doing so, when I have to pay a premium for a slabbed book that I want, it gets "jailbroken" ASAP.  I've cracked open several dozen slabbed books over the last few years.

So my question is, how would that affect the veracity of CGC's numbering system in the real world, when let's say there are "seven 4.0's", and in opening mine, I've now dropped that quantity to an actual six?

Like you, I crack just about all of my books.  And in doing so, I've altered the census for all of those books.  I keep the label with the books but that doesn't change the fact that the census is no longer correct.  

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

For the reasons stated the census is an absolute farce.

It's not reliable in terms of being a straight edge, nor is it any real indication of rarity in my view. Ok it gives a kind of rule of thumb as to numbers graded but that's it. Lots of collectors have never graded a book and probably more don't own a slabbed book.

We know from Boardies here that many people like say October for example have amazing collections but don't do the slabbed thing.

There are also undesirable books which people do not bother to grade yet some sellers try to manipulate sales by saying they are rare because there are none on the census.

What really irks me is when you get a seller on ebay for example pushing a raggedy dogturd of a book, condition wise, which is ungraded BUT citing the numbers on the census in order to big up his piece of carp.

In short, to coin a phrase, the census is not worth the paper it's written on. 

[Aman619]

Yes it is.  Just need to understand what it’s good for and what’s it’s not.  But yeah, without years of accumulated know,edge of what’s very likely to be over or under represented you’re missing the big picture.

as for all the raw books out there in high grade, there ARE plenty locked up in collections… but most won’t grade out as high as we and the owners think they will. 

[KCOComics]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:14 PM, Aman619 said:

Yes it is.  Just need to understand what it’s good for and what’s it’s not.  But yeah, without years of accumulated know,edge of what’s very likely to be over or under represented you’re missing the big picture.

as for all the raw books out there in high grade, there ARE plenty locked up in collections… but most won’t grade out as high as we and the owners think they will. 

Agreed.  It's directional data, but not accurate data.  It's helpful for the top books in the hobby. 

[Cat-Man_America]

On 12/15/2021 at 2:49 PM, fifties said:

I collect comic books in order to read them, and in doing so, when I have to pay a premium for a slabbed book that I want, it gets "jailbroken" ASAP.  I've cracked open several dozen slabbed books over the last few years.

So my question is, how would that affect the veracity of CGC's numbering system in the real world, when let's say there are "seven 4.0's", and in opening mine, I've now dropped that quantity to an actual six?

 

 

On 12/15/2021 at 7:39 PM, ha G-G is © ® ™ said:

For the reasons stated the census is an absolute farce.

It's not reliable in terms of being a straight edge, nor is it any real indication of rarity in my view. Ok it gives a kind of rule of thumb as to numbers graded but that's it. Lots of collectors have never graded a book and probably more don't own a slabbed book.

We know from Boardies here that many people like say October for example have amazing collections but don't do the slabbed thing.

There are also undesirable books which people do not bother to grade yet some sellers try to manipulate sales by saying they are rare because there are none on the census.

What really irks me is when you get a seller on ebay for example pushing a raggedy dogturd of a book, condition wise, which is ungraded BUT citing the numbers on the census in order to big up his piece of carp.

In short, to coin a phrase, the census is not worth the paper it's written on. 

I'm a reluctant advocate for the CGC Census, but census numbers are complicated ...and there are no absolutes.  One of the reasons I started a baseline thread for under 10 copies in the census several years ago (using OSG minimum values) was the idea of factoring in the cost of encapsulation factor to assess real world rarity.  You are indeed correct that no census can determine what's in the marketplace, and there are always folks who abuse trust through deceptive on-line advertising strategies.  The best way to use the Census in lieu of absolutes is by ballpark estimation.  If one assumes that a certain number of books have been resubmitted for a crack & press grade bump without the inclusion of labels or that some books may be cracked out and submitted elsewhere, you can make a reasonable guess as to how many are reflected by the census. Low value books ...anything valued under, say $100 based on mid-grade values... can be assumed to exist in much greater quantity in the wild.  One should view the census as useful, but not gospel.  Venturing an educated guess, the accuracy is probably around 80% with most errors being in the upper grades.

[Sauce Dog]

The census to me is simply a tool to figure out the "census threshold" for the condition of a book. That is to say, for many key books that get larger submissions due to popularity it is easy to figure out the average grade and from there I try to aim at purchasing a copy that is better than the majority of other slabs out there.

This is of course only really valuable for issues that are plentiful, and older Golden Age books I'll take what I can get

[Professor K]

On 12/15/2021 at 3:49 PM, fifties said:

I collect comic books in order to read them, and in doing so, when I have to pay a premium for a slabbed book that I want, it gets "jailbroken" ASAP.  I've cracked open several dozen slabbed books over the last few years.

So my question is, how would that affect the veracity of CGC's numbering system in the real world, when let's say there are "seven 4.0's", and in opening mine, I've now dropped that quantity to an actual six?

Just how many slabs have you cracked Fifties? 

[Cat-Man_America]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:49 PM, Sauce Dog said:

The census to me is simply a tool to figure out the "census threshold" for the condition of a book. That is to say, for many key books that get larger submissions due to popularity it is easy to figure out the average grade and from there I try to aim at purchasing a copy that is better than the majority of other slabs out there.

This is of course only really valuable for issues that are plentiful, and older Golden Age books I'll take what I can get

Post-GA numbers: I see your meniscus (physics) and raise it a bubble...

[fifties]

On 12/15/2021 at 7:53 PM, Professor K said:

Just how many slabs have you cracked Fifties? 

As I posted, several dozen. And given that I only collect '40's-early '50's horror and crime fare, I don't believe the census counts are very high (vs later years of -for example- Spider Man or Thor, which I imagine are tremendous in number).

Also, I hadn't really thought about the folks who break their slabs open and re-submit, maybe after pressing, and hoping for a higher grade. This practice would of course  additionally diminish the veracity of the CGC count.

So when I see a book for auction on eBay with the notation, "Only X in the census",  I'm safe in continuing to assume it's simply sales blather on the sellers part, to try and hype the value of the book.

 

[Professor K]

I gotta say I know there are bigger things to worry about than the veracity of the CGC census. But on the other hand your nonchalant, even cavalier viewpoint of affecting the veracity of it by cracking dozens of slabs without notifying the people who maintain the census is somewhat off-putting. Especially if you are cracking slabs of books with already low census numbers. Maybe you're the reason that book I've been waiting for years to come up for sale never does. Because you cracked them all!

I admit I'm guilty of cracking 3 or 4 books (with high population numbers) to re-sub without notifying CGC over the years, but the rare and uncommon GA books, some of which may only have 10 or 20 in the census. Don't you feel any say.....remorse? Any feeling of guilt for knowingly contributing to making the census inaccurate? 

Perhaps you created this thread as a sort of subconscious confession? As a way to lessen the guilt you feel for what you've done to the CGC census, particulary to your fellow GA collecters? 

[Gotham Kid]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:18 PM, Ryan. said:

CGC requests that you send the labels back to them so they can update the census. 

Some people will never do that, for whatever reasons.

Even if you present irrefutable evidence that a slabbed book has since been cracked and/or re-holdered with a new cert # (leaving both cert #s active) or even regraded by CBCS

Dumb.

I stopped caring for the census a while ago.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 12/16/2021 at 7:43 AM, Professor K said:

I gotta say I know there are bigger things to worry about than the veracity of the CGC census. But on the other hand your nonchalant, even cavalier viewpoint of affecting the veracity of it by cracking dozens of slabs without notifying the people who maintain the census is somewhat off-putting. Especially if you are cracking slabs of books with already low census numbers. Maybe you're the reason that book I've been waiting for years to come up for sale never does. Because you cracked them all!

I admit I'm guilty of cracking 3 or 4 books (with high population numbers) to re-sub without notifying CGC over the years, but the rare and uncommon GA books, some of which may only have 10 or 20 in the census. Don't you feel any say.....remorse? Any feeling of guilt for knowingly contributing to making the census inaccurate? 

Perhaps you created this thread as a sort of subconscious confession? As a way to lessen the guilt you feel for what you've done to the CGC census, particulary to your fellow GA collecters? 

He is a very bad man. 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/16/2021 at 7:55 AM, Gotham Kid said:

I stopped caring for the census a while ago.

Pensus 

[Gotham Kid]

@Get Marwood & I

Steve

Happy Holidays mate.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/16/2021 at 4:56 PM, Gotham Kid said:

@Get Marwood & I

Steve

Happy Holidays mate.

You too Peter. When is Festive Elvis putting in an appearance? 

[OtherEric]

On 12/15/2021 at 11:55 PM, Gotham Kid said:

Some people will never do that, for whatever reasons.

Even if you present irrefutable evidence that a slabbed book has since been cracked and/or re-holdered with a new cert # (leaving both cert #s active) or even regraded by CBCS

I've only ever cracked a couple books... Mostly because I've only ever owned 3 slabs that I recall.  I would be more than happy to report the books as deslabbed for the census.  What I have zero willingness to do is make the effort and use the stamp to send in the labels.  However small a task it may be, the upside return just isn't there.  It might be if I somehow knew everyone, or even 90% of unslabbing got reported, but at this point that will never happen.

Even if a lot of people keep the labels with the deslabbed books I bet for a majority of them the labels no longer exist.  

[Gotham Kid]

On 12/16/2021 at 5:00 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

You too Peter. When is Festive Elvis putting in an appearance? 

done

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/16/2021 at 5:52 PM, Gotham Kid said:

done

Ah hu huh