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Valiants mentioned in the 2003 Overstreet market reports

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We've been grading a lot more Valiants lately... there must be a reason...

 

What is "a lot more"? Up until February, there had only been 650 Valiant books graded...

 

Are you seeing them by the hundreds in the last couple months? Ballpark?

 

They're not showing up on Ebay...

so I wonder if they're even being graded for immediate re-sale.

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They're probably all from Gareb Shamus.

 

If Gareb Shamus had tons of Valiants...don't you think they'd be in his price guide,

and he'd be raising the prices every time it was published?

 

That is the way you run a major price guide publication, right?

Standard increases for everything in your OWN collection...

Isn't that right, Bob? smirk.gif

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Hey, when Gareb DID own a ton of Valiant cases, he did rack the Wizard prices to the hilt. I assume he sold most of them off during the speculator rush, but might have a few ultra-HG copies hanging around.

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If we can all agree that the "best circumstance" for any comic book

is to be in the hands of someone who truly appreciates it...

then it's obvious that Valiant speculation was bad, but Valiant appreciation is good.

 

If no one in Overstreet, Wizard, CBM, or any other major publication

has said a word about Valiant in years...but the prices seem to be moving up...

maybe the books are going into "appreciative hands"...and we should all just be happy.

 

Even the mangiest dog at the pound deserves a good home.

 

(What kind of people hang around the dog pound yelling,

"I hate all these dogs, and everyone else should hate them all too!") wink.gif

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Sorry I joined this thread a little late boys, but let me offer a few comments:

 

1 - Valiant Produced a Quality Product for The Majority of Its Publishing Life

While the pre-Unity Valiants were great, let me highlight Unity itself and the books following it. Unity was everything that "Crisis" "Zero Hour" "Secret Wars" tried to be. It seamlessly brought the entire Valiant universe together and was awesome. Post Unity books were also quality books. From a pure art and literary standpoint a Bloodshot #1 and a Turok #1 were both fun reads that I enjoyed and many of my friends did so too.

 

Since X-O is my thing, let me share my experiences: I started with issue #12 and went to about #50. In that time I tried to finish my pre 12 X-O run, but could never afford most of the early issues (although I did get a #1 back in the day). When I came back to comics and ebay last year the X-O books were the first I bought and now have a full run with literally hundreds of doubles (mostly because I bought full cases of 14,15 and 18). As more people of my age group (I'm 23) come back to the hobby, as I think some will, I can see those "wall copy" Valiants being highly sought after. Do I think they will be worth triple digits, no, but $4-$7 is too cheap.

 

It's a good comparison to EC comics - both are no longer printed but still have a solid place in comics history and are sought after by fans. With the creative and artistic quality of pre-unity and immediate post Unity Valiants, these early issues are correctly being rescured from the dollar bin.

 

2 - Valiant has some great intellectual property

As has been said before, I think that the Valiant characters are too good to lay dormant. As was pointed out, Turok had been resurrected for Valiant after previous runs in Dell. The more prominent characters (ie X-O and not Ninjak) will be brought back.

 

Valiants do have some nice upside potential

From an investment perspective, at the very least Valiants don't have much more room to fall as they are so low already! Does that mean that they are the best comic investment now - No. But for the stories and the quality of the book, you will get your money's worth.

 

DAM

 

 

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Sense you make much, Young Jedi, and I agree with many of your comments. I just don't want to see people getting wired up on "low print-runs" and filling up the Valiant speculator bandwagon once again.

 

I also agree that they have limited upside compared to bargain bin fodder, but not much more.

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I'll add my 2 cents worth. I actually owned and read every early Valiants like Harbinger 1-10, Magnus 1-12, X-O Manowar 1-10, Rai 1-10,etc. When I saw how hot these books had become, going for $50 to $100 a piece for books like Rai #3, 4 and Magnus #12 I knew I had to sell (always sell what's hot = including stocks, internet stocks anyone??). Anyway, I have been buying back the same Valiant books for 25 cents to a buck a piece. The pre-Unity stories were great. I am looking for some of the pre-Unity books like most Valiant collectors but I am not willing to pay an arm and a leg but now the books are reasonably priced.

 

Great Valiant comic website by the way.

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I want to complete runs of Magnus, Turok, and Solar. Have been picking up most issues over the years out of the bargain bins. If the last few issues are going to be tough to find, I may have to be willing to pay a little more for them.

 

I am intrigued by the print run numbers included in your post. I doubt that only the very last issues had such low numbers. There was probably a gradual dropoff towards the end. Maybe the last 5 or 10 issues were similarly printed in low numbers.

 

Do you have any numbers for the print runs of these Valiants for the final few issues, not just the final issues?

 

 

 

kevthemeve writes:

 

Now compare that against the print runs of the final issues of the V1 titles that lasted until 1996...

 

Turok 47 11,400

X-O Manowar 68 14,000

Solar 60 12,500

Magnus 64 14,000

Eternal Warrior 50 12,500

Bloodshot 51 9,000

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You should follow the link that LOFWR provided.... print runs were low over the course of the last few issues of the final V1 titles. Orders were dropping like flies.

 

The Rise and fall of X-O MANOWAR (my personal favourite V1 title)

 

1 70,000 (Feb 1992)

10 175,000

19 440,000 (highest printed regular issue)

0 900,000 (same month as #19 - aug 1993)

20 380,000

30 95,000

40 40,000

50 70,000 (2 covers x 35,000)

60 23,500

61 19,500

62 19,000

63 17,750

64 17,500

65 16,500

66 15,250

67 14,500

68 14,000 (Sep 1996)

 

Please keep in mind that this title was published for only 4.5 years.

 

Kev

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OK, found the info. I see that all the numbers are "EST". Perhaps with more digging I could find the answer... but upon what data are the estimates based upon? Distributor sales info, like from Diamond maybe?

 

Also, have the figures been compared to the Standard Catalog of Comics publication figures? (assuming they have any numbers for Valiants... I don't have a copy.)

 

 

 

Magnus Robot Fighter # 63

Date: FEB / 1996

Est. Print: 15,000

 

I grabbed two of these #63s out of a bargain box yesterday.

 

 

Magnus Robot Fighter # 64 Final Issue

Date: FEB / 1996

Est. Print: 14,000

 

Saw this one there too, but there was a large scratch on the cover that was completely unattractive, so I passed.

 

Maybe I will find these in the bargain boxes yet. Usually I hold out for nearly perfect condition copies, but I'll know not to be so picky now on some of these low print run issues.

 

Thx!

 

 

 

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The print run numbers for the Valiant books on my site are mainly taken

directly from the sales charts created by Matthew High and Michael Burns

(back in the day)...which were extrapolated from Diamond (and Capital City)

Top Sales charts, and insider info.

 

Anyway, the final issues of Valiant books (particularly 1996) were very

low print books...generally 10,000 to 20,000 copies.

 

Unfortunately, except for a few books, print run is the ONLY thing they

have going for them.

 

And, if print run is the only thing you have going for you...

you have to rely totally on "print run fans" and completionists

to have a re-sale market for the books.

 

In general, you can break Valiant's tenure into these two-year categories:

 

VALIANT 1991-1992 : Most demanded for all reasons: they are the early books,

great stories, nice art (especially hand-painted colors), and low print runs compared to

Marvel, DC, or Image...(generally 25,000 to 75,000 copies)

 

VALIANT 1993-1994: Little demand, if any, and huge supply: ok stories, ok art,

very high print runs (easily 200,000+ on most books and even 1.75Million for Turok #1)

 

VALIANT 1995-1996: Little demand for story and/or art...

demanded mainly for scarcity/completionists (10,000 to 40,000 copies)

 

Here's a little PDF doc that I made for anyone who'd like to know a bit more (just one page):

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/BeginnersGuide.pdf

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Two things:

1 - X-O Manowar is the best series!!!!!!!!!! I proudly have a full run (including a 1 in cgc 9.6 and literally cases of issues 14, 15, and 18; the 1/2 and the gold 0 variant) and am always in the market for another full run (variants not necessary).

 

2 - Valiantman's site ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I highly recommend anyone and everyone to surf on by . . .

 

DAM

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I'll say this one more time, do not believe the low Valiant print runs from 1991-92, as these are fictitious at best.

 

While they may have been "fudged" by those in charge at the time...

(25,000 might actually be 40,000...)

there's no way they were 100,000+ in 1991 because Valiant

had no money and no "mainstream" support...a start-up doesn't

print 100,000+ out of their own pockets.

 

There is a "jump" in print runs around the time of the Unity Crossover (1992),

and again immediately afterwards.

 

Some of the Valiant books printed in 1993-94 were 200,000 copies,

and you can still find them by the CASE today.

 

If anyone's got as many as five copies of 1991 Valiants, I'd be surprised.

Even Mile High is constantly sold out...even though they charge multiples of guide,

but they always have EVERY regular issue 1993-1994 Valiant book.

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While they may have been "fudged" by those in charge at the time...

(25,000 might actually be 40,000...)

 

Yep, that's all I meant. Basically double the estimates, as that many likely went out the "back door". This is all common knowledge and one of the contributors to the Valiant Crash.

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Yep, that's all I meant. Basically double the estimates, as that many likely went out the "back door". This is all common knowledge and one of the contributors to the Valiant Crash.

 

The "Valiant Crash" was all about Turok #1 having 1.75MILLION copies for $3.50 each.

 

Harbinger #1 has never shown up by the dozens in any bargain bin.

 

50,000 copies spread over the U.S., Canada, and abroad just don't show

up in any significant quantities anywhere...crash or not.

 

200,000+...yep...you'll see them for $0.25...but we're talking late-1992 to 1994

for those kinds of print runs.

"Pre-Unity" is the way to go...

Fantastic stories, great art, print runs under 100k, and amazing continuity.

Unfortunately, there are only about 50 Valiant books that meet those requirements.

(And you'll continue to see them going for multiples of guide...)

 

The rest of the books are pretty much "freebies" when you're buying an Ebay lot.

I suggest donating them to hospitals...orphanages...or neighborhood kids.

 

Just check the index, if it says "August 1992" or earlier...give it a read and a home.

If it says "1993" anywhere...give it away.

(Unless you know it's a "gold variant"...in that case, sell it to a completionist.)

 

Since there are about 800 Valiant comics...

you could pretend that they are the "Action comics" of the 1990s...

in which case you'd probably want to grab the first

50 issues at cover price, and pass on most of the rest.

 

Or, if they're the "Marvel" of the 1990s,

you'd probably grab the first 10 issues of the

first 5 titles...and pass on almost everything else.

 

Either way, you're gonna find yourself looking

for the same 50 books, most of which are the tiny books

in my signature.

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The "Valiant Crash" was all about Turok #1 having 1.75MILLION copies for $3.50 each.

 

Then you don't remember exactly what was going on back then. Wizard was hyping the "low print runs", and that was the entire foundation for the excessive price increases. Quality had nothing to do with the rise in back issue valuation; it was mostly reading Wizard and then running out and investing in this "hot company".

 

There were other factors, but I remember some pointed reports and articles regarding Valiant and their fudging of print numbers, and that was the first big crack in the fake Valiant market and led to all that came after. Once "low print runs" became known as a blatant scam, the back issue frenzy cooled down considerably, and even Wizard backed off.

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I have to respectfully disagree with all that...

 

There's no way that people ditched books that had print runs of 60,000

because they were "duped" when they were told that the print runs were 40,000.

 

The problem was dealers who got their 1993 brand new case of

Bloodshot #1 and immediately put them on the wall for $8 each,

leading to the thinking that ANY Valiant was a good Valiant.

But there were PLENTY of Bloodshot #1 (600,000)...and there still are.

 

Then the same thing happened with Turok #1, but there's no way

anyone sold out of that book...Wizard listed the thing for $5 immediately,

but there were a dozen places in every town to get one for $1 within months.

Uh oh...the market's starting to fall...dump them all, dump them all!

 

But even the "dumpers" weren't bringing in boxes of the early stuff...

they had one of each book up to mid-1992, if any...and bulk of the

"dump" was multiples of all the post-1992 stuff.

 

Otherwise, we should still find stacks and stacks of 1991 Valiant books for $1...

because no one wants them today, right? But there aren't any.

 

If the early Valiant books are "out there" in bulk...then this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2171999020

should look a whole lot more like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172743704

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