Does anyone else find it insulting that the value of our hobby is completely driven by other media? 1 1

[Off Panel]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:16 PM, Toz said:

Just glad I got to see the live action Marvel movies.My 12 year old self would have probably peed his pants if he (I) had seen them.

Yeah — me, too.

I don’t want to come across as someone who doesn’t like the movies. I have really, really enjoyed them. Beyond the big stories, it has been absolutely exhilarating to watch Marvel just nail the little things like the way Cap throws his shield or Thor swings his hammer.

My issue is that valuing every comic book primarily on the criteria of

• Has it been a movie?
• Will it be a movie? And
• Could it be a movie?

feels like the tail wagging the dog.

[Off Panel]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:07 PM, letsgrumble said:

Another way of looking at it is that film and television are now being driven by another medium.

I love this.

I had not thought of it this way, but I’m going to think of it this way going forward.

[musicmeta]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:38 PM, Shawn Everidge said:

Myself, I'm thrilled that many characters have become more popular among the masses due to the movies. That this translates to more value regarding certain comics is no surprise to me and I'm not the least bit offended by it. Whatever helps keep the medium afloat is just fine with me.

Same here.  I love all this attention for comics. 

[dupont2005]

Almost nothing I collect has a movie or tv show 

[PunisherPunisherPunisher]

The exposure of TV shows and movies has at least got more kids in to reading comics and loving the hobby which should be the number 1 priority 

[Hamlet]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:02 PM, Off Panel said:

Yeah — me, too.

I don’t want to come across as someone who doesn’t like the movies. I have really, really enjoyed them. Beyond the big stories, it has been absolutely exhilarating to watch Marvel just nail the little things like the way Cap throws his shield or Thor swings his hammer.

My issue is that valuing every comic book primarily on the criteria of

• Has it been a movie?
• Will it be a movie? And
• Could it be a movie?

feels like the tail wagging the dog.

If everyone else is focusing on the movie criteria, it seems like that should make books that are coveted mainly for the other criteria you mentioned more available.  Take advantage of that when you can for your collecting enjoyment.

 

 

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

I do not.

[MAR1979]

I do find it absurd that even a mere rumor of a possible mention of some throwaway character appearing on Marvel TV show or Film causes a frackin' panic. The only hope is the bandwagon jumping folks will take fiscal losses resulting in them exiting the hobby.

Still other media and comics have influenced each other since the 1940's. A bunch of what became Superman canon for example originated on the 1940's radio program or 1950's TV show.

 

P.S. As for Taskmaster as I recall Susan Richards (nee Storm) easily took him out with nothing more than a glance. So in my mind Taskmaster equals loser,Loser,LOSER!

Edited December 29, 2021 by MAR1979

[William-James88]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:52 PM, Off Panel said:

 

Today, the factors that give a book its “value” are all external. They are all judged through the lens of the television and motion picture industries.

 

As a DC and GA collector fan, I don't agree with this statement, especially with how it misses the forest for the trees. Firstly because there arent always big spikes on key books when a DC character gets media attention (it happens, but it's not a given). Huntress 1 cold have been Daredevil 9, but it wasn't. I still got a NM one for $20 after the Birds of Prey movie came out. Tim Drake is in Titans now and his first appearance is less than $10. And many golden age books are still valued in the old school way you mention. Like More Fun Comics 52, 55 or all american comics 61 or Master Comics 25, 27, 33. Just some examples that fit your criteria of books worth a lot simply for being wanted within the collecting community. And you can add to that all those Pre Code Horor books which have nothing to do with media. It's all about the covers and rarity, and those have gone through the roof in terms of worth recently. And plus we have more recent examples from Valiant like Solar 10 which is sought after for rarity in a particular grade.

In the end, I think your rant is more about Marvel Comics from the 60s era and on (and I'd even wager a shorter time frame than that), which ends up being a rather small subset of comics in general when you look at all that this hobby encompasses.

Edited December 29, 2021 by William-James88

[ExNihilo]

I'm so insulted, a part of me thinks now is the time to offload the books that I once considered to be worthless dollar bin fodder but is now seemingly selling for at least $5 a pop.  

[Off Panel]

On 12/28/2021 at 10:31 PM, William-James88 said:

In the end, I think your rant is more about Marvel Comics from the 60s era and on (and I'd even wager a shorter time frame than that), which ends up being a rather small subset of comics in general when you look at all that this hobby encompasses.

You may be right. 

Both you and Ryan correctly point out that Golden Age books aren't part of this trend (which makes me happy). Also, with very few exceptions, I've never really collected DC books, so I may be generalizing my Marvel experiences across the entire hobby.

On the other hand, your DC observations may help to prove my point. The market seems to have decided that the DC movies "aren't very good*" and so the DC books aren't seeing the crazy run-ups we're getting over here in Marvel land. In this new Hollywood-centric world, Great Movies = Super Valuable Comics and Stinker Movies = Comic Value Stagnation. (In both cases, the price is less about the quality of the source material and more about whether the movie or TV show was good/popular.)

 

 

*Personally, I enjoyed the first Wonder Woman and the latest Suicide Squad, but in general I would probably agree with that assessment.

[William-James88]

On 12/28/2021 at 10:52 PM, Off Panel said:

On the other hand, your DC observations may help to prove my point. The market seems to have decided that the DC movies "aren't very good*" and so the DC books aren't seeing the crazy run-ups we're getting over here in Marvel land. 

You are indeed generalizing. The DC films and shows have lots of variance in their success. The market has not in any way decided that DC movies are good or not. The "problem" with DC is that their main characters are already influenced by comic factors and rarity and a 20+ year difference, and they come less on the market,  creating less momentum to pass on to more easily accessed comics.

DC simply does not act the same way. Maybe it's time you jumped ship

Edited December 29, 2021 by William-James88

[Buzzetta]

No.

I am all for it to be honest.  There are things that the printed media cannot convey that motion pictures can and vice versa. 

If anything you should be grateful that the world is finally recognizing that comic books and comic book characters are not low class forms of entertainment for the feeble minded.   I think some forget that at one point in Stan Lee's career he was reluctant if not embarrassed to tell people what he did for a living. 

[MetalPSI]

Tis true

Only losers collected comic books in my day

[jjonahjameson11]

On 12/28/2021 at 10:31 PM, William-James88 said:

As a DC and GA collector fan, I don't agree with this statement, especially with how it misses the forest for the trees. Firstly because there arent big spikes on key books when a DC character gets media attention. Huntress 1 cold have been Daredevil 9, but it wasn't. I still got a NM one for $20 after the Birds of Prey movie came out. Tim Drake is in Titans now and his first appearance is less than $10. And many golden age books are still valued in the old school way you mention. Like More Fun Comics 52, 55 or all american comics 61 or Master Comics 25, 27, 33.

On the other hand, when movie announcements were made for Aquaman, Shazam and Black Adam, Wonder Woman (just to name a few), their GA 1st appearances went through the roof so I don't think your statement is correct either.

Edited December 29, 2021 by jjonahjameson11

[chrisco37]

On 12/28/2021 at 10:15 PM, MAR1979 said:

I do find it absurd that even a mere rumor of a possible mention of some throwaway character appearing on Marvel TV show or Film causes a frackin' panic. The only hope is the bandwagon jumping folks will take fiscal losses that will cause them to exit the hobby.

Still other media and comics have influenced each other since the 1940's. A bunch of what became Superman canon for example originated on the 1940's radio program or 1950's TV show.

 

P.S. As for Taskmaster as I recall Susan Richards (nee Storm) easily took him out with nothing more than a glance. So in my mind Taskmaster equals loser,Loser,LOSER!

Absurd is a much better word than insulting to describe my feelings about this current madness.  

[MAR1979]

On 12/29/2021 at 5:30 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

On the other hand, when movie announcements were made for Aquaman, Shazam and Black Adam, Wonder Woman (just to name a few), their GA 1st appearances went through the roof so I don't think your statement is correct either.

Black Adam is a huge outlier both for GA and Bronze + Copper.  The first hints of the movie being developed with The Rock  go back almost a full decade now yet Black Adam  appearances are still about a hot as DC ever gets.  I for one first never realized and still don't get The Rock's popularity but it simply can't be denied.

I feel the original post was referring to Silver/Bronze  age to current not GA.

Wonder Woman - at least in the art world where I've spent most of the past 21 years has always been an A-level or near A-level demand character.  Bronze WW for example has been "hot" for a long time. WW is almost always in the 10 most popular searches on CAF. Not sure it translates exactly to Comics say for bronze where at best she's equal to a C or C+ level Marvel Character.

I will say I am glad I spent my time in the 00's picking up 1970's WW Covers and not 1970's WW Comics!

 

Of course I own the only "vintage" 1 of 1 CGC 9.8 Black Adam app that remains worthless....

Edited January 3, 2022 by MAR1979

[Bookery]

This phenomena is not unique to comics, though it may be more extreme in this medium.  The value of first edition books has often escalated when either of two factors occur -- (a) the book wins a Pulitzer Prize or Edgar Award or Hugo Award, etc., or (b) the book is made into a popular movie.  One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Grapes of Wrath, Out of Africa, the James Bond books, on and on.  Comic books are now driving movie content, but in the '50s and '60s it was often the reverse.  In order to compete with television and cinema, comics began adapting dozens (hundreds?) of TV shows and movies... from Bonanza to Beverly Hillbillies to Adventures of Jerry Lewis to Star Trek, etc.  Star Wars remains a popular comic book series (or 10) to this day, based on a movie franchise. 

Cross-merchandising has always been around, and increases sales on all fronts.  The downside is that value based on movie appearances is often quite temporary.    If a movie isn't popular, or is forgotten over time, the value of collectibles associated with it drop.  Until Star Wars came along, Tarzan was probably the most popular movie franchise with constant output from the '30s to the '60s.  But now deemed un-PC, it is unlikely there will ever be another Tarzan movie.  Today's generations are unfamiliar with most of the old TV westerns (except Rango, of course), so comic values on these have strayed far behind many other comics.

[Off Panel]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:34 PM, William-James88 said:

You are indeed generalizing. The DC films and shows have lots of variance in their success. The market has not in any way decided that DC movies are good or not. The "problem" with DC is that their main characters are already influenced by comic factors and rarity and a 20+ year difference, and they come less on the market,  creating less momentum to pass on to more easily accessed comics.

DC simply does not act the same way. Maybe it's time you jumped ship

I should be clear that although I'm a lifelong Marvel fan, it doesn't mean I don't like DC.

I still consider the Watchmen to be the pinnacle of what can be achieved with the superhero format. DC did it and I don't really think Marvel will ever match it. I've also picked up a few DC series over the years that I have really enjoyed, including Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and Neil Gaiman's Sandman books. I read the Teen Titans book back in the eighties and while I didn't find them as compelling as the X-Men, I thought they were better than a lot of other Marvel books I was reading at the time.

I've always thought Batman was a cool character and there have been a few other DC books and characters that have tempted me over the years. Really, the only reason I don't collect DC is that I would definitely be biting off more than I could chew. I'm not good at doing anything halfway and I know myself well enough to confirm I couldn't get into DC books "just a little." I already have way more Marvel goals than I can possibly achieve in this lifetime (but I maintain a very upbeat denial on that front), so the idea of picking up a new set of books with issues going back to the 1930s would be disastrous.

It's really a "know your limits" situation. 

[William-James88]

On 12/29/2021 at 12:22 PM, Off Panel said:

It's really a "know your limits" situation. 

Haha, no worries, I was just messing. Since the 60s, Marvel has always been the cooler comic company with more hip and younger characters, but most fans know DC also has the goods if you want some quality storytelling. Like you said, Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman but also Grant Morrison, these are giants. And they all gravitated towards DC for that epic storytelling. It's where Jim Lee, a Marvel giant in his own right, has chosen to settle down in a big way, along with McFarlane who (and I'll admit I find this last one heartbreaking) says his second favourite hero after Spawn is Batman (yeah, I can see that NOW Todd). 

Now I think I almost feel like a snob saying that DC is the comic fan's company, but as we've been discussing, that's the company (between the two bigger ones) who's collectability is more held within the comic community. Or at least that's what we are all assuming, it's kinds hard to tell when their big books are so much rarer that it's enough of a factor for continued growth.