THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[@therealsilvermane]

 

14 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I thought that if the CM sequel was going to continue Carol's adventures in the past, that they should stick with the same directors because it might involve a lot of the same characters not far removed from the last movie's time frame. But if they're going to make a present day story, most likely the story will be a mini-Avengers type movie. Carol isn't preoccupied with running a kingdom or dealing with the mystic realm. On Earth, her world is Nick Fury's world, the Avengers' world, not unlike Steve Rogers.

 

But what does that have to do with selecting a new director(s)?

Oh right, I didn't finish my thought. Captain Marvel was very 90's and retro. For the sequel, to complete Carol's journey to the present, perhaps a whole new perspective/feel/visual look is appropriate.

[▫️]

9 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Since Iron Man? 

I think you miss the point. If studios start announcing profiles for directors (e.g. we require a transsexual, Asian midget with crossed eyes) it is going to come across like false openness to all races, genders, etc. How about we make it about the best director, and then announce the name? Crazy, right?

Yup, excluding a black or white director when they are looking for an Asian director is ridiculous. Hiring by race instead of the best man or woman for the job.

Then CM2 is looking for a woman to direct? I mean thank God they aren’t going with the original directors, as I’ve posted before I’ll see CM2 in the theater if they replace them. But to say we are hiring a specific gender? 

[theCapraAegagrus]

The cringe is real, Marvel Studios.

[@therealsilvermane]

5 minutes ago, Oddball said:

Yup, excluding a black or white director when they are looking for an Asian director is ridiculous. Hiring by race instead of the best man or woman for the job.

Then CM2 is looking for a woman to direct? I mean thank God they aren’t going with the original directors, as I’ve posted before I’ll see CM2 in the theater if they replace them. But to say we are hiring a specific gender? 

 

2 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

The cringe is real, Marvel Studios.

Here's a little history for you. Male directors suck at making solo female super-hero movies. Catwoman and Elektra were both made by dudes and not only are they the worst comic book movies ever, they rank among the worst movies ever. Then WB hires a female director to helm Wonder Woman and the movie doesn't suck. In fact, it was a success.

Get a TALENTED female director to direct a female led movie. Sure a male director can also understand the nuances of film language and getting the best performance from your actors, but a female can add that extra empathy of living her whole life as a woman to add a little extra to the female protagonist that will show in the final product.

Jeez.

[▫️]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

 

Here's a little history for you. Male directors suck at making solo female super-hero movies. Catwoman and Elektra were both made by dudes and not only are they the worst comic book movies ever, they rank among the worst movies ever. Then WB hires a female director to helm Wonder Woman and the movie doesn't suck. In fact, it was a success.

Get a TALENTED female director to direct a female led movie. Sure a male director can also understand the nuances of film language and getting the best performance from your actors, but a female can add that extra empathy of living her whole life as a woman to add a little extra to the female protagonist that will show in the final product.

Jeez.

Imagine if a call went out for a white male director for the next Spider-Man movie. That would be racist. Good thing Marvels hiring criteria is not based on race or gender.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

 

Here's a little history for you. Male directors suck at making solo female super-hero movies. Catwoman and Elektra were both made by dudes and not only are they the worst comic book movies ever, they rank among the worst movies ever. Then WB hires a female director to helm Wonder Woman and the movie doesn't suck. In fact, it was a success.

Get a TALENTED female director to direct a female led movie. Sure a male director can also understand the nuances of film language and getting the best performance from your actors, but a female can add that extra empathy of living her whole life as a woman to add a little extra to the female protagonist that will show in the final product.

Jeez.

Nah. Get a talented director regardless of gender, or race, or sexual orientation to direct whatever movie starring whomever.

[Bosco685]

35 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

 

Oh right, I didn't finish my thought. Captain Marvel was very 90's and retro. For the sequel, to complete Carol's journey to the present, perhaps a whole new perspective/feel/visual look is appropriate.

Now THAT I think would be a very fair action as producers do this all the time with TV shows when they want to freshen up the next season.

But I think calling out the gender as if only a woman can make the sequel shine can take things down the wrong path. These comic book films and TV shows should be given a fighting chance to reach a wider audience based on great creators - not gender-based pandering.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Bosco685

[@therealsilvermane]

1 minute ago, Oddball said:

Imagine if a call went out for a white male director for the next Spider-Man movie. That would be racist. Good thing Marvels hiring criteria is not based on race or gender.

They don't have to announce it for Spider-Man. They just hire a white guy anyway. Racism/sexism works best when it's done quietly. And your reverse racism/reverse sexism argument doesn't work on me. Anti-diversity folks have been using that angle for ages and it's a BS argument.

Also, Disney didn't really "announce" on the big board "Hey look at us hiring a FEMALE DIRECTOR!" The news story said they hope to hire a female director. This is all from news sources. Reliable news sources, but still just the news. Marvel had no comment. Will Kevin Feige announce one day "Screw you men, I only want lady directors!"? I don't know. But if he does make that imaginary announcement then maybe your gripe will have more merit.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Highest-grossing movies of all-time were directed by men.

The women in those movies performed well, despite being directed by men.

Opportunity and outcome are not the same thing. Forcing outcome is a problem - not a solution.

[@therealsilvermane]

24 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Now THAT I think would be a very fair as producers do this all the time with TV shows when they want to freshen up a show.

But I think calling out the gender as if only a woman can make the sequel shine can take things down the wrong path. These comic book films and TV shows should be given a fighting chance to reach a wider audience based on great creators - not gender-based pandering.

This racism/sexism debate might start getting ugly. Best for me to tap out. But I will say as I said in an above post: a director's job is to bring their understanding of film language to the shooting process and also get the best performances from the actors needed for the scene so that the editors have great footage to cut together. A talented woman director or a talented male director can both bring that to a major movie production. But if, in said movie, the personal and inner life of the character matters, and it does with these Marvel movies despite what old fogies like Martin Scorsese say, then the personal life experience of that director can bring an added intangible nuance to the film. Despite what some people may say, living life as a woman is very different from living life as a man. Living life as a black man in America can be very different from living life as a white man in America. Life experience matters when you're the story teller. It's also why RDJ was in part cast as Stark, he had experience as substance abuser. Ken Branagh was hired to helm Thor because he has so much experience in film and on stage with Shakespeare. Ryan Coogler was hired to helm Black Panther to directly bring his life experience as an African-American to the film, as well as proving his talent with Creed.

Edited January 23, 2020 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

5 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

A name that seems to come up often is Michelle MacLaren (X-Files, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Westworld). She originally was going to direct Wonder Woman.

Now someone like this could kick this film into high gear based on her track record. And she could stand her ground for consideration against any male or female director.

[@therealsilvermane]

12 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Highest-grossing movies of all-time were directed by men.

The women in those movies performed well, despite being directed by men.

Opportunity and outcome are not the same thing. Forcing outcome is a problem - not a solution.

Yes, we all know men are superior to women in almost every way, especially football. But it's okay to throw the ladies a bone every once and then, particularly for the one or two solo female led Marvel Studios films we'll ever see (I'm counting Black Widow which I'm sure will be servicable but won't make as much as Iron Man or other male led movie)

Edited January 23, 2020 by @therealsilvermane

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yes, we all know men are superior to women in almost every way, especially football. But it's okay to throw the ladies a bone every once and then, particularly for the only solo female led Marvel Studios film we'll ever see.

What...?

-insert Billy Madison quote-

[bentbryan]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yes, we all know men are superior to women in almost every way, especially football. But it's okay to throw the ladies a bone every once and then, particularly for the only solo female led Marvel Studios film we'll ever see.

Don’t forget Black Widow 

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

This racism/sexism debate might start getting ugly. Best for me to tap out. But I will say as I said in an above post: a director's job is to bring their understanding of film language to the shooting process and also get the best performances from the actors needed for the scene so that the editors have great footage to cut together. A talented woman director or a talented male director can both bring that to a major movie production. But if in said movie, the personal and inner life of the character matters, and it does with these Marvel movies despite what old fogies like Martin Scorsese say, then the personal life experience of that director can bring an added intangible nuance to the film. Despite what some people may say, living life as a woman is very different from living life as a man. Living life as a black man in America can be very different from living life as a white man in America. Life experience matters when you're the story teller. It's also why RDJ was in part cast as Stark, he had experience as substance abuser. Ken Branagh was hired to helm Thor because he has so much experience in film and on stage with Shakespeare. Ryan Coogler was hired to helm Black Panther to directly bring his life experience as an African-American to the film, as well as proving his talent with Creed.

You default to the term 'sexism'. Others seeing it as not gravitating too harsh to one side of a consideration just to over-compensate for past Hollywood practices.

Joss Whedon, for all the carp he gets after the mess of Justice League, helped the MCU become a steady winning model long before Infinity War or Endgame. What if back then Feige had taken the approach of only selecting people based on their minority status, gender (female) to show the MCU was a different place or other criteria that would have disrupted that production model? It may or may not have been as successful. But no need to dismiss potential contributions because of someone's skin color or gender.

Pick the best candidates to make these films and TV shows successes. That makes the most sense.

[▫️]

11 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

They don't have to announce it for Spider-Man. They just hire a white guy anyway. Racism/sexism works best when it's done quietly. And your reverse racism/reverse sexism argument doesn't work on me. Anti-diversity folks have been using that angle for ages and it's a BS argument.

Also, Disney didn't really "announce" on the big board "Hey look at us hiring a FEMALE DIRECTOR!" The news story said they hope to hire a female director. This is all from news sources. Reliable news sources, but still just the news. Marvel had no comment. Will Kevin Feige announce one day "Screw you men, I only want lady directors!"? I don't know. But if he does make that imaginary announcement then maybe your gripe will have more merit.

I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m old school and believe the very simple honorable notion of the best man or woman for the job, in any job, despite all the racism and gender-bias that has prevailed and will continue to. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Affirmative action is prejudicial.

If you were writing a movie about Ancient Egypt, would you hire the director with the most knowledge of Ancient Egypt, or the Egyptian director with the most knowledge of the subject matter?

When you pull from the smallest pool - you're being the most prejudicial. It's simply a bad concept.

[▫️]

19 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yes, we all know men are superior to women in almost every way, especially football. But it's okay to throw the ladies a bone every once and then, particularly for the one or two solo female led Marvel Studios films we'll ever see (I'm counting Black Widow which I'm sure will be servicable but won't make as much as Iron Man or other male led movie)

Yes, everyone should get a trophy.

[@therealsilvermane]

8 minutes ago, Oddball said:

29 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Coogler was hired to helm Black Panther to directly bring his life experience as an African-American to the film, as well as proving his talent with Creed.

Life experience? Coogler went to private school in Berkeley as a kid. Not the typical African American experience. His talent was evident though in Fruitvale Station. 

Okay, maybe we shouldn't generalize about the African-American experience and what it is. According to Coogler's biography, he grew up in Oakland, CA and his mother a community organizer and his father a juvenile probation counselor. I don't know how much of that affected Coogler growing up, but you saw elements of it in Black Panther, particularly with the orphaned Killmonger character and scenes in Oakland.

[@therealsilvermane]

34 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You default to the term 'sexism'. Others seeing it as not gravitating too harsh to one side of a consideration just to over-compensate for past Hollywood practices.

Joss Whedon, for all the carp he gets after the mess of Justice League, helped the MCU become a steady winning model long before Infinity War or Endgame. What if back then Feige had taken the approach of only selecting people based on their minority status, gender (female) to show the MCU was a different place or other criteria that would have disrupted that production model? It may or may not have been as successful. But no need to dismiss potential contributions because of someone's skin color or gender.

Pick the best candidates to make these films and TV shows successes. That makes the most sense.