D2 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 11:29 AM, KCOComics said: You gotta admit, this isn't a good look for cgc. I'm all for fair and balanced. Price hikes and market adjustments are a part of business. CGC is selling a service. And that service has been bad for nearly 2 years now. Wait times and quality control issues. I can't imagine Matt or anyone else would argue that point. They've been bad. They've cut discounts and increased prices and justified it by saying they would hire more people and improve processes. And maybe they have, but it's failed to address their problems. I'm not a dealer. This doesn't effect me. But unannounced rate hikes is poor business practice for a company that needs to address serious underlying problems. Sadly it seems like they've made the choice to expand and diversify in non-comic areas, at the cost of the quality of their comic business. They don't believe there is viable competition and they might be right, for now. It’s difficult to say what looks good and what doesn’t look good. And I’m not just trying to make a point for the sake of making a point. People are going to complain. When there is change, people will complain. How many books does CGC receive in a day today? 5,000 a day? What was that figure like 2 years ago? 5 years ago? So it’s difficult to say what CGC has and has not done to compensate for this, ever expanding by market I will say one thing, they certainly do not communicate the challenges they have faced as an organization either… But no one wants to hear about that. Im not disputing a lack of communication to dealers, but $200? Is this really what we are discussing? $200. Two Hundred Dollars. I think that’s what shakes my head at everyone who throws their arms up in the air, waving the competitor flag every chance they get. That’s the attitude which is disappointing to see. No one is happy for a price hike, but do we need to go to extremes and throw the baby out with the bath water? “The company is going down!” ”I’m going to the competitor!” If I vocalized my disappointment so vigorously with my employers like I see comments like that, I’d be fired. KCOComics and Parabellum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post THE_BEYONDER Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) On 1/11/2022 at 10:07 AM, D2 said: It’s difficult to say what looks good and what doesn’t look good. And I’m not just trying to make a point for the sake of making a point. People are going to complain. When there is change, people will complain. How many books does CGC receive in a day today? 5,000 a day? What was that figure like 2 years ago? 5 years ago? So it’s difficult to say what CGC has and has not done to compensate for this, ever expanding by market I will say one thing, they certainly do not communicate the challenges they have faced as an organization either… But no one wants to hear about that. Im not disputing a lack of communication to dealers, but $200? Is this really what we are discussing? $200. Two Hundred Dollars. I think that’s what shakes my head at everyone who throws their arms up in the air, waving the competitor flag every chance they get. That’s the attitude which is disappointing to see. No one is happy for a price hike, but do we need to go to extremes and throw the baby out with the bath water? “The company is going down!” ”I’m going to the competitor!” If I vocalized my disappointment so vigorously with my employers like I see comments like that, I’d be fired. I think the company is going down. Feels more and more like a sinking ship everyday... Edited January 11, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER Ride the Tiger, Larryw7, jsilverjanet and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 10:07 AM, D2 said: If I vocalized my disappointment so vigorously with my employers like I see comments like that, I’d be fired. Seems like a very odd analogy. Beige, Tony S, Mystafo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D84 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 9:10 AM, THE_BEYONDER said: I think the company is going down. Feels more and more like a sinking ship everyday... CGC is not sinking anytime soon. What I find hysterical is people go ballistic over seller fees on eBay and this, they are like, what you gonna do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post october Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 9:07 AM, D2 said: It’s difficult to say what looks good and what doesn’t look good. If I vocalized my disappointment so vigorously with my employers like I see comments like that, I’d be fired. It's safe to say that raising existing fees and instituting new ones while the existing service has never been slower or less accurate is not a good look. Bizarre analolgy. Dealers are not employees of CGC, it's a symbiotic relationship. Believe it or not, dealers were (and are) able to make a living without CGC's services. jsilverjanet, Comicshows, WeR138 and 21 others 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 12:36 PM, october said: It's safe to say that raising existing fees and instituting new ones while the existing service has never been slower or less accurate is not a good look. Bizarre analolgy. Dealers are not employees of CGC, it's a symbiotic relationship. Believe it or not, dealers were (and are) able to make a living without CGC's services. Right. Sounds like dealer hogwash to me. I doubt very highly there is more brand loyalty to a dealer than CGC. I’m sorry to say it, but that’s what this is about, entitlement. Dealer entitlement. WeR138 and Cat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post october Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 9:40 AM, D2 said: Right. Sounds like dealer hogwash to me. I doubt very highly there is more brand loyalty to a dealer than CGC. I’m sorry to say it, but that’s what this is about, entitlement. Dealer entitlement. I do not have a CGC dealer account. "Brand loyalty" is based on where they can make the most money. That can change. jsilverjanet, Mr Sneeze, Mystafo and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddly Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 What did my local dealers charge locals to submit moderns to CGC through them? $59.95 CAD per book which works out to $47.46 USD. You have to pay $200 now? Do you get a $150 or $200 CGC credit with that too? I don’t understand the issue here… why should slabbing comics be more profitable for the dealer than CGC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Somebody at Blackstone saw how Diamond made comic shop owners unpaid interns for years and wants to copy the same pattern with CGCs dealer network. alexgross.com, Tony S, Moondog and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stronguy Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 I called CS this morning to ask WTF was going on. I was told, "That's part of the changes that have been made." When I asked if there was going to be a waiver based on volume I was told flat out, No! After last year's 25% reduction in dealer discount coupled with the price increase, I adjusted my submissions accordingly, reducing submissions by about 30% and money-spent by about 25%. Now with the new price increase and the $200 "privilege of doing business with CGC" tax, I will be reducing that even more. In the end CGC will get less of my 2022 money, dollar-for-dollar, than they did in 2020. I hope others follow suit. At this point CGC and CBCS seem to be fixated on who can one-up each other on the race to the bottom. It's certainly not a business model for growth. Timmay, alexgross.com, awakeintheashes and 13 others 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blazingbob Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 10:07 AM, D2 said: It’s difficult to say what looks good and what doesn’t look good. And I’m not just trying to make a point for the sake of making a point. People are going to complain. When there is change, people will complain. How many books does CGC receive in a day today? 5,000 a day? What was that figure like 2 years ago? 5 years ago? So it’s difficult to say what CGC has and has not done to compensate for this, ever expanding by market I will say one thing, they certainly do not communicate the challenges they have faced as an organization either… But no one wants to hear about that. Im not disputing a lack of communication to dealers, but $200? Is this really what we are discussing? $200. Two Hundred Dollars. I think that’s what shakes my head at everyone who throws their arms up in the air, waving the competitor flag every chance they get. That’s the attitude which is disappointing to see. No one is happy for a price hike, but do we need to go to extremes and throw the baby out with the bath water? “The company is going down!” ”I’m going to the competitor!” If I vocalized my disappointment so vigorously with my employers like I see comments like that, I’d be fired. First off, I'm a dealer that has been with CGC since they opened. CGC is not my employer. They are a grading company that I choose to use. They may be the one that grades the book but I'm the one standing in front of the customer selling it. CGC does not "sell" the book. jsilverjanet, KCOComics, Mr Sneeze and 28 others 31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Iceman399 Posted January 11, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 10:55 AM, eddly said: What did my local dealers charge locals to submit moderns to CGC through them? $59.95 CAD per book which works out to $47.46 USD. You have to pay $200 now? Do you get a $150 or $200 CGC credit with that too? I don’t understand the issue here… why should slabbing comics be more profitable for the dealer than CGC? No they don't get a credit. The reason a shop would charge a lot more than just the cgc costs is quite simple. You can submit yourself do all of the work and pay less or: - Shop has to prepare the inventory (database for the books) - Shop has to buy packing material - Shop has to pack the books - Shop has to do the cgc slips - Shop has to ship the books/pay for insurance - Shop has to and I can't stress this one enough answer 1000x are my books back yet, when are my books back, I can't believe my 9.8 just bought it off the rack book came back an 8.5 - Shop has to pay for return shipping which is astronomical especially in Canada By the time you add all of that time, energy, efforts and costs in dealers are not making much on customer submissions. thehumantorch, Complex306, Monster's Lair Comics and 7 others 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post buttock Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 I'm not a CGC dealer, but I'm surprised that they weren't already charging for this service. Given how much their overhead has likely increased, I'm not surprised that they had to raise prices recently either. But to just flat out change the terms without notifying people is poor customer service. Seems like everyone was really caught off guard, and that's not acceptable. Mystafo, toro, silverseeker and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VintageComics Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) What Blackstone saw was a cash cow that CGC didn't see. It's actually a brilliant move. People will continue to pay for their crack addictions and Blackstone will charge whatever they can. Their market evaluation of the company saw missing revenue everywhere and CGC didn't capitalize on it, partly because it was collectors working there rather than hedge fund owners. I think many people from the last two decades who accused CGC of over charging are probably going to rethink their pasts posts very differently moving forward. Edited January 11, 2022 by VintageComics OdinsSecrets, JJ-4, JWKyle and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crops068 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) On 1/11/2022 at 10:00 AM, Iceman399 said: No they don't get a credit. The reason a shop would charge a lot more than just the cgc costs is quite simple. You can submit yourself do all of the work and pay less or: - Shop has to prepare the inventory (database for the books) - Shop has to buy packing material - Shop has to pack the books - Shop has to do the cgc slips - Shop has to ship the books/pay for insurance - Shop has to and I can't stress this one enough answer 1000x are my books back yet, when are my books back, I can't believe my 9.8 just bought it off the rack book came back an 8.5 - Shop has to pay for return shipping which is astronomical especially in Canada By the time you add all of that time, energy, efforts and costs in dealers are not making much on customer submissions. This right here is why it is "more" that you pay for the service you are getting from the shop. Now expect this service to cost a "little" more. Just like the submission prices are increasing, so will the bottom line for the shops to continue submitting. You may gripe when you go to the store to buy milk, but you still buy it. Most Dealers will likely do the same here and just pass the added cost on as part of the inflation from the increased fees. It really isn't that 1) complex or 2) harsh a cost. I was not a fan of losing the discount from the premium membership, but it is what it is. I will still submit things as I see fit under either the standard or premium. I have also submitted through my LCS and had absolutely no problem paying their premium, because it was far less a hassle for me in the long run. ** I will add that lack of notice at all is pretty concerning, communication is key here. It should have been messaged out to the dealers in some fashion, even if it was a short notice like the upcoming price increases** Edited January 11, 2022 by Crops068 added some text ** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 12:58 PM, blazingbob said: First off, I'm a dealer that has been with CGC since they opened. CGC is not my employer. They are a grading company that I choose to use. They may be the one that grades the book but I'm the one standing in front of the customer selling it. CGC does not "sell" the book. No, they only produce your merchandise. And they do sell the book. People that buy a CGC graded book, wanted a CGC graded book. They didn’t want the book because YOU sold it to them. All hail the coveted dealer. Timmay, thehumantorch, Larryw7 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLeagueCHEW Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 If you think moving to CBCS is a good move, try out handling a slab. I recently returned one I bought on eBay as it was bowing backwards and each time I handled it several stress creases were present on the BC. Even the older CGC holders are stronger then theirs. Might want to avoid. kimik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakeintheashes Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 10:58 AM, Stronguy said: I called CS this morning to ask WTF was going on. I was told, "That's part of the changes that have been made." When I asked if there was going to be a waiver based on volume I was told flat out, No! After last year's 25% reduction in dealer discount coupled with the price increase, I adjusted my submissions accordingly, reducing submissions by about 30% and money-spent by about 25%. Now with the new price increase and the $200 "privilege of doing business with CGC" tax, I will be reducing that even more. In the end CGC will get less of my 2022 money, dollar-for-dollar, than they did in 2020. I hope others follow suit. At this point CGC and CBCS seem to be fixated on who can one-up each other on the race to the bottom. It's certainly not a business model for growth. Not sure if it's on purpose, but CGC is becoming the Bad Idea of grading companies. jsilverjanet, theCapraAegagrus, Sigur Ros and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post namisgr Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) On 1/11/2022 at 10:55 AM, eddly said: I don’t understand the issue here… why should slabbing comics be more profitable for the dealer than CGC? Because the comics belong to the dealers, not to CGC. And, as pointed out already, the hobby exists without CGC but not without the back issue dealers. As for calling the reactions to the new surcharge examples of whining, that's not a fair representation of what's happened to dealer costs over the recent past. TATs have crushed cash flow from slabbed comics. Prices for the slabbing at every tier have increased, with the magnitude well above the rate of inflation. Being based on fair market value, and in the case of the most valuable submissions that require walkthrough service include a percentage cut of value, the cut that CGC takes from submitters has increased sharply with the recent gains in sale prices, without any additional dealer fees being tacked on. But in the end, it'll boil down to the response to the changes to CGC prices and policies - when their net profit from slabbing comics begins to decline then they'll be impacted, and when that impact is large enough then their pricing and policy changes toward large volume submitters will be reconsidered. Edited January 11, 2022 by namisgr silverseeker, Tony S, thehumantorch and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post october Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 10:28 AM, D2 said: No, they only produce your merchandise. Funny, I thought the "merchandise" was the comic book itself, not the plastic around it. The hobby has now reached peak stupid. thehumantorch, Mr Sneeze, namisgr and 33 others 34 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
