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Marvel Secret Wars #8......or......ASM #252
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66 posts in this topic

On 1/18/2022 at 8:31 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Using the Marvel/DC books as the demarcation for Bronze/Copper is an…interesting approach, albeit challenging given the Superman/spiderman crossovers in the Treasuries from the 1970’s, in addition to the Batman/Hulk crossover in DC Special Series 27 (1981).  
 

The 2nd Superman-Spiderman had a total bronze "feel" to it, Batman/Hulk as well. X-Men/NTT to me though seems Copper.  Then we have  the all Marvel "Contest of the Champions" even though an Inventory story originally planned for the 80 Summer Olympics to me "feels" pure Copper.

Edited by MAR1979
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On 1/17/2022 at 9:09 PM, fett said:

the original bronze age ended Dec-1979-people just kept extending it as the years went by-early 90s 70s were bronze and 80s were copper-90s were modern :) and then that bubble pooped 

Yep, that's the way that I keep it simple in my head...................70's is BA and 80's is the CA and the 90's onwards is pretty much worthless drek (with the odd exception) from a vintage collecting point of view.  (thumbsu

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On 1/18/2022 at 2:55 PM, KCode98 said:

This thread 

 

473136322.0.0.jpg

:yawn: this thread is tame. Go to the cornfield if you want to see off topic train wrecks. That and wheatcakes, amirite?

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On 1/17/2022 at 6:56 PM, MAR1979 said:

Please note I do not sell comic books, I'm merely a collector. My opinions are based on 40 years in the hobby and ofttimes still are wrong :) I do own multiple of both books in 9.8, they were my childhood copies. I was an OCD collector in my youth. 

Funny, I'm also 40 years into the hobby and was OCD in my youth!  I just had my ASM 252 come back from CGC 9.6 - I had guessed 9.0, so I'm pretty happy!  
The Wolverine Vol. 1 #1 that came back 9.0 when I had estimated 9.2 or 9.4...not so happy-making  :(  
As an aside, I have yet to crack CGC's code.  I've been grading by Overstreet standards for decades.  Each of my CGC submissions come back with some right as I'd guessed, some higher than expected, some lower than expected.  Few are significantly different from my estimates, but some are - in either direction.  I can't figure it out!  You'd think I was either an overgrader or undergrader...seems I'm just BAD AT IT, apparently!  :D 

 

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On 1/18/2022 at 8:21 PM, djzombi said:

Funny, I'm also 40 years into the hobby and was OCD in my youth!  I just had my ASM 252 come back from CGC 9.6 - I had guessed 9.0, so I'm pretty happy!  
The Wolverine Vol. 1 #1 that came back 9.0 when I had estimated 9.2 or 9.4...not so happy-making  :(  
As an aside, I have yet to crack CGC's code.  I've been grading by Overstreet standards for decades.  Each of my CGC submissions come back with some right as I'd guessed, some higher than expected, some lower than expected.  Few are significantly different from my estimates, but some are - in either direction.  I can't figure it out!  You'd think I was either an overgrader or undergrader...seems I'm just BAD AT IT, apparently!  :D 

 

My hit ratio the last 10 years has been approx: 70% match my estimate, 20% are higher, 10% are lower.  It does appear that when I'm off like you I am very very off

I think I've figured out to some degree which defects CGC considers the most negative.  However not going to get in to that as i could very well wrong and if I'm not I don't want it advertised :)

Edited by MAR1979
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I have both. Were I to be able to keep only one it would be ASM 252. It has the better cover and story and it is the first appearance of the black suit.

The BA/CA is delineated by Secret Wars.

Edited by grendelbo
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I never found a conclusive point where Bronze becomes Copper, so for the sake of simplification, I go by prices.  My Bronze period begins with Marvels increase to 20 cent covers and ends with the new .60 cent cover. I thought about gouing with .50 cents but that is clearly to early. With DC, it is when they go to 48 pages for .25 cents.  The only obvious exception is Millers DD run. I classify his whole run as Bronze because I don't want to break it up, wheres Moores Swampguy run is all Copper, even though they may overlap. 

That works well enough for me with most titles.  When I opened my first shop, comics were .60 cents and I would never claim I operated a shop in the Bronze Age.

CA to me is marked by the rise of Independent comics and they really hit their spurt during Marvels .60 cent price period. Back then, they were simply new releases.

Edited by shadroch
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On 1/19/2022 at 11:20 AM, shadroch said:

I never found a conclusive point where Bronze becomes Copper, so for the sake of simplification, I go by prices.  My Bronze period begins with Marvels increase to 20 cent covers and ends with the new .60 cent cover. I thought about gouing with .50 cents but that is clearly to early. With DC, it is when they go to 48 pages for .25 cents. 

That works well enough for me with most titles.  When I opened my first shop, comics were .60 cents and I would never claim I operateds a shop in the Bronze Age.

CA to me is marked by the rise of Independent comics and they really hit their spurt during Marvels .60 cent price period. Back then, they were simply new releases.

In an earlier post I suggested that the boundary could be set as early as the switch to 40-cent covers (for Marvel).  I just flipped through the cover gallery for Amazing Spider-Man and X-Men, and the 50-cent covers definitely look like Copper books to me and the 40-cent covers are perhaps a little more ambiguous but still feel more Copper than Bronze to me.  By which I mean, the 40-cent covers look more like the 50- and 60-cent covers than the covers that came before.

I don't feel strongly about this, by the way.  I guess I'll just say that I absolutely agree that 20-cent covers are clearly Bronze and 60-cent covers are clearly Copper, but there's a case to be made for earlier boundaries for both of those eras.

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On 1/19/2022 at 9:42 AM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

In an earlier post I suggested that the boundary could be set as early as the switch to 40-cent covers (for Marvel).  I just flipped through the cover gallery for Amazing Spider-Man and X-Men, and the 50-cent covers definitely look like Copper books to me and the 40-cent covers are perhaps a little more ambiguous but still feel more Copper than Bronze to me.  By which I mean, the 40-cent covers look more like the 50- and 60-cent covers than the covers that came before.

I don't feel strongly about this, by the way.  I guess I'll just say that I absolutely agree that 20-cent covers are clearly Bronze and 60-cent covers are clearly Copper, but there's a case to be made for earlier boundaries for both of those eras.

My classifications aren't perfect. They are what I established in the 90s and have stuck with them. Back then Valiants were all " modern books"  and even though they are pushing thirty, I still keep them in that catagory. I've recently begun to divide my modern section into 1990s and 2000and up, but most of my stuff is from the 80s and older. My X-Men BA is 94-143 although I'm entertaining moving it to 94-150 as those later issues have gotten some traction.  Bronze Age books sell for more than Copper, so squeezing  as much into the BA as possible might make better business sense.

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On 1/19/2022 at 11:12 AM, shadroch said:

Bronze Age books sell for more than Copper, so squeezing  as much into the BA as possible might make better business sense.

Which is exactly the nonsense that had some :censored: trying to push the definition of Bronze into the mid-80s years ago. And it's even been nonsense from that terrible perspective for years, since Copper became hot.

:facepalm:

On 1/19/2022 at 10:20 AM, shadroch said:

The only obvious exception is Millers DD run. I classify his whole run as Bronze because I don't want to break it up

It's already broken up into his starting on the title as the artist and his taking over the writing duties (and pulling the book out of near-cancellation status) as well. Which fits perfectly.

On 1/19/2022 at 10:20 AM, shadroch said:

CA to me is marked by the rise of Independent comics

The rise of the Direct Market, which enabled the rise of the Independents (and the Limited Series), is what really defines Copper.

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Thats the ticket. In the 1990s, I decided to organize my books in a way that would allow me to manipulate the market decades later.  While I appreciate you thinking the way I choose to organize has somehow affected the market, I'm not nearly as influential as you seem to believe. 

Perhaps you'd like to come over and organize my stock correctly. 

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