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Why is the Killing Joke such a key comic?
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79 posts in this topic

On 1/22/2022 at 4:34 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

I preferred the work of Neil Gaiman, Terry Moore, and Roger Stern over Moore.

certainly all great choices, but I find Gaiman a one trick pony. He really can dress it up so well but it is always elder beings and humans smashed together with each becoming the other in some ways

I have much love for Sandman, don't get me wrong and it is based in the writing more than the art. I enjoyed his genre issues early in the run especially. And so much heart and awesome lines/scenes. But then we got the same in American Gods. but again, so good. he can create a character like nobodies business

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On 1/22/2022 at 4:58 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Definitely a matter of opinion, but I like the front of the class, where I’ll remain!  🥳

So you’re sitting at the front.   Is it a remedial class, or?   ;). :kidaround:

Edited by Bronty
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On 1/21/2022 at 1:20 PM, KCode98 said:

I don't know anything about DC but I like key books and I know this one keeps popping up as a must grab. Why is this book so popular? 

Maybe you should buy a copy and read it? :baiting:

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Killing Joke came out in 1988 at a time when prestige format one-shots and mini-series, along with graphic novels, were gaining in popularity. In the late 80s, Frank Miller's work on the Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year One (Batman 404-407), Moore's Watchmen 12 issue series and others were sparking new interest in comic storytelling. Not to mention the Tim Burton Batman movie was set to release in 1989, and Bat-mania was huge.

Killing Joke is considered by many to be the best (or one of the top) Joker stories of all time - it won the Eisner as well. The art is gorgeous, and the story really is well done and has an interesting payoff. There were 14 printings of the initial run, each with different color lettering on the front, and even back then I remember the first print being sought after and selling for a premium. I still have my original 4th print, which was the first chance I got to buy it - I was 11 and living in a small town, so I was limited to what I could buy at the drug store or grocery store except for the one or two times a year I could get my parents to take me to a comic shop in a nearby city.

It's a great book for a collection, but if you just want to read it I would suggest tracking down the deluxe edition hardcover - it's like $15 or less on Amazon. It has some extra essays, an additional story written and drawn by Bolland, and it's recolored to match Bolland's original vision for the artwork.

If you're looking for Batman stories I'd consider it a must-read, along with these others (this list is not at all definitive or in any kind of order, and others may disagree or have additions):

  • The Dark Knight Returns
  • Batman: Year One
  • Strange Apparitions (Detective 469-479)
  • Long Halloween
  • Son of the Demon
  • Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth

I also recommend some of these other stories as a few of my favorites:

  • Grant Morrison's Batman run (various issues/titles starting at Batman 655)
  • A Death in the Family (Batman 426-429)
  • Batman Year Two (Detective 575-578)
  • Going Sane (Legends of the Dark Knight 65-68)
  • Batman: Venom (nothing at all to do with the Marvel character Venom; Legends of the Dark Knight 16-20)

There are tons more (most anything Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams teamed up on is worth checking out), but the above are all great in my opinion. You could also look for the collected editions of "The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told" and "The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told" for a nice collection of individual comic stories across the ages from Gold to basically Copper (not sure if there's a newer, updated printing of these with modern stories).

 

Edited by Jesse-Lee
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On 1/23/2022 at 9:43 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Thanks for all the spoilers 

 

I’ve never read it :shy:

What's the statute of limitations on using spoiler warnings? Three decades? Ten? 

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On 1/21/2022 at 5:43 PM, Grendel72 said:

Think the lasting legacy of the  book is the fleshing out of the origin story of the Joker which serves as a counterpoint to Bruce Wayne's own journey to becoming the Batman. For me, the Killing Joke is all about the Joker, his motivations and psyche are all laid bare. One embraces the joke and wants everyone else to see the absurdity of it all, while the other is always fighting to.keep it at bay though deep down he probably knows the joke too. Im probably overeaching here but both of them sharing a laugh at the end before Joker dies is maybe Batman letting Joker know he understand the joke too. There is no turning  back for either of them. In the end one has to die. And this is explicitly concluded in DKR with no ambiguity. 

I guess I read a different version than everyone else. AFAIK, Joker didn't die at the end of The Killing Joke but was returned to Arkham Asylum. He DID "die" at the end of book 4 of DKR, however. Maybe that's what you were leading to, though.

The "joke" they shared at the end of the story - while a good joke - pissed everyone off at the time. In other words, Batman wouldn't have laughed at ANY joke the Joker told or shared a moment of catharsis with him.

Thirdly, it didn't really solidify Jokers "background". While Joker is explaining himself in The Killing Joke - raving, really - he says "I remember it so many different ways." Implying that not even the story we just finished reading is actually what happened. Just how the Joker remembered it at that particular time. So as the reader, we are back to square one.

I personally believe Joker is something supernatural inhabiting the body of some poor ba$*ard, perhaps for decades as Batman notes "Whatever was in him rustles as it leaves" during Jokers death scene.

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On 1/23/2022 at 2:39 PM, Randall Ries said:

Thirdly, it didn't really solidify Jokers "background". While Joker is explaining himself in The Killing Joke - raving, really - he says "I remember it so many different ways." Implying that not even the story we just finished reading is actually what happened. Just how the Joker remembered it at that particular time. So as the reader, we are back to square one.

This is one of the things I love about The Killing Joke as an "origin story," the fact that it's such unreliable narration, and the way the job seems to come together as "fate." Without spoiling The Three Jokers, I'm not sure how I feel about that miniseries. Part of me liked what they did with it, and part of me hated it.

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On 1/23/2022 at 3:39 PM, Randall Ries said:

AFAIK, Joker didn't die at the end of The Killing Joke but was returned to Arkham Asylum.

I admit, it never occurred to me that Batman kills Joker until I heard Bolland talking about it. But there is no evidence of a return to Arkham anymore than there is a killing. (shrug) It ends midscene, so we try to find the meaning in the wordless final panels. Moore's stated distaste for it likely means we will never get an explanation from him directly, but I think Bolland is extremely compelling as a source, if not Moore surely he knows more than anyone else about the book. Its not like the --script would say "pan down and zoom in to the puddles in final panels...don't directly show Batman snapping Joker's neck". I don't think it is a fade to black for the sake of fade to black...far too simplistic to use that many panels for that purpose. But again, Moore'll never tell us himself.

I am open to both interpretations, that may be the intent or it may be poorly articulated and we read too much into it because Moore is a master.

 

It is a great cover. I think Ross #nn and Jock Tec880 both equal Bolland's cover and may surpass them. (I think yeah, they both do.Do you favour the Jock Flock, the Gloss of Ross or the Grin from Bolland?) I like those nicknames, the triumvirate of Joker covers!!!

Edited by Bird
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On 1/23/2022 at 5:05 PM, Bird said:

I admit, it never occurred to me that Batman kills Joker until I heard Bolland talking about it. But there is no evidence of a return to Arkham anymore than there is a killing. (shrug) It ends midscene, so we try to find the meaning in the wordless final panels. Moore's stated distaste for it likely means we will never get an explanation from him directly, but I think Bolland is extremely compelling as a source, if not Moore surely he knows more than anyone else about the book. Its not like the ---script would say "pan down and zoom in to the puddles in final panels...don't directly show Batman snapping Joker's neck". I don't think it is a fade to black for the sake of fade to black...far too simplistic to use that many panels for that purpose. But again, Moore'll never tell us himself.

I am open to both interpretations, that may be the intent or it may be poorly articulated and we read too much into it because Moore is a master.

 

It is a great cover. I think Ross #nn and Jock Tec880 both equal Bolland's cover and may surpass them. (I think yeah, they both do.Do you favour the Jock Flock, the Gloss of Ross or the Grin from Bolland?) I like those nicknames, the triumvirate of Joker covers!!!

It's certainly my favorite Joker cover (Jock is up there too, and I have a soft spot for Neal's Batman 251 of course). And Killing Joke also has one of my favorite interior panels from any book ever - bet you can't guess which one that is... :baiting:

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