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Why is the Killing Joke such a key comic?
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79 posts in this topic

On 1/23/2022 at 5:05 PM, Bird said:
On 1/23/2022 at 2:39 PM, Randall Ries said:

AFAIK, Joker didn't die at the end of The Killing Joke but was returned to Arkham Asylum.

I admit, it never occurred to me that Batman kills Joker until I heard Bolland talking about it. But there is no evidence of a return to Arkham anymore than there is a killing. (shrug) It ends midscene, so we try to find the meaning in the wordless final panels. Moore's stated distaste for it likely means we will never get an explanation from him directly, but I think Bolland is extremely compelling as a source, if not Moore surely he knows more than anyone else about the book. Its not like the ---script would say "pan down and zoom in to the puddles in final panels...don't directly show Batman snapping Joker's neck". I don't think it is a fade to black for the sake of fade to black...far too simplistic to use that many panels for that purpose. But again, Moore'll never tell us himself.

I am open to both interpretations, that may be the intent or it may be poorly articulated and we read too much into it because Moore is a master.

 

It is a great cover. I think Ross #nn and Jock Tec880 both equal Bolland's cover and may surpass them. (I think yeah, they both do.Do you favour the Jock Flock, the Gloss of Ross or the Grin from Bolland?) I like those nicknames, the triumvirate of Joker covers!!!

I haven't read the book. Still the show seemed to sum it up as they were "agreeing to laugh and find some common ground." And corelllated it to walking a sun beam. That was my 2c:insane:

 

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On 1/23/2022 at 3:31 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

It's certainly my favorite Joker cover (Jock is up there too, and I have a soft spot for Neal's Batman 251 of course). And Killing Joke also has one of my favorite interior panels from any book ever - bet you can't guess which one that is... :baiting:

There's certainly a lot to choose from.

Any of these?

 

kj2.jpg

kj1.jpg

kj3.jpg

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On 1/23/2022 at 6:05 PM, Bird said:

But there is no evidence of a return to Arkham anymore than there is a killing. (shrug) It ends midscene, so we try to find the meaning in the wordless final panels.

Well, that isn't accurate. Those "E"'s in the final panels are cop cars coming to take him away haha. Hoho. To the funny farm...

Batman isn't going to tear Jokers head off in front of them. Batman tried breaking his neck in DKR but stopped short of killing him. "Paralysis, really...."

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On 1/23/2022 at 7:47 PM, jdandns said:

There's certainly a lot to choose from.

Any of these?

kj1.jpg

 

Definitely a ton to choose from! I was being a little facetious, because of my avatar - but yeah, this is the one for sure. I had a shirt with this print back in the early 90s, and then my wife got me the same shirt a few years ago for Father's Day (since the old one was long gone and would never have fit me again anyway!). But yeah, there's so much great art in that book!

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On 1/23/2022 at 7:16 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I haven't read the book. Still the show seemed to sum it up as they were "agreeing to laugh and find some common ground." And corelllated it to walking a sun beam. That was my 2c:insane:

 

 

On 1/23/2022 at 7:16 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I haven't read the book. Still the show seemed to sum it up as they were "agreeing to laugh and find some common ground." And corelllated it to walking a sun beam. That was my 2c:insane:

 

I never go by the shows. I always go by the books. The shows are adulterated and watered down like the sucky movies are to attract an audience who don't understand what they are looking at. I remember the fan response to that terrible joke.

"THAT would NEVER happen. Batman capitulating to the Joker. As IF!" (This was 1988. People were soon to grow weary of saying "As IIFFF!")

Check the panels. AND. Batman would NEVER put his hand on Jokers shoulder in a pal-sie-wal-sie sort of way like that. Although I remember when I read it I didn't take it that way. I took it as he was having his ridiculous, impossible laugh while at the same time getting hold of Joker so he didn't try to run off.

 

Untitled.jpg

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On 1/23/2022 at 8:54 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

Definitely a ton to choose from! I was being a little facetious, because of my avatar - but yeah, this is the one for sure. I had a shirt with this print back in the early 90s, and then my wife got me the same shirt a few years ago for Father's Day (since the old one was long gone and would never have fit me again anyway!). But yeah, there's so much great art in that book!

Haha. Are you TheReverend?

 

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On 1/23/2022 at 8:50 PM, Randall Ries said:

Well, that isn't accurate. Those "E"'s in the final panels are cop cars coming to take him away haha. Hoho. To the funny farm...

yes I know, but we don't see that happen is my point

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On 1/23/2022 at 8:50 PM, Randall Ries said:

Batman isn't going to tear Jokers head off in front of them.

I'll play devils advocate.

the sound effects move from panel to panel and then the laughing stops abruptly, cut off. The sirens stop suddenly as well. The cop's lights go out. (They don't care/actively endorse the end of Joker). Only darkness and the rain remain. The end.

HA HA HA

 

So I can see it both ways. Is that the intent? Again, who knows

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On 1/23/2022 at 9:23 PM, Bird said:

yes I know, but we don't see that happen is my point

We see it inferred though. There are clues. The "E"'s are cop cars. Sirens. There's no big mystery there. Joker remembers his beginnings a different way every time he thinks about it leaving us full circle and no further ahead than we were. It was a fun tale and Barbara Gordon got shot and paralyzed. That was the big news.

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On 1/24/2022 at 4:39 AM, Randall Ries said:

I personally believe Joker is something supernatural inhabiting the body of some poor ba$*ard, perhaps for decades as Batman notes "Whatever was in him rustles as it leaves" during Jokers death scene.

That's interesting. Grendel like.  

Whatever Moore or Bolland's  intentions were, that last page is still drawing interest after all this time. The treachery of images. Maybe it also serves to reveal something about us i.e., those who believe one way or the other. 

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On 1/23/2022 at 9:50 PM, Grendel72 said:

That's interesting. Grendel like.  

Whatever Moore or Bolland's  intentions were, that last page is still drawing interest after all this time. The treachery of images. Maybe it also serves to reveal something about us i.e., those who believe one way or the other. 

Stories like that are supposed to leave something on the table, I think. It seems reasonable to assume DC Comics probably had to establish boundaries with Moore. Maybe Moore wanted to go hog wild but DC still had decades to go milking out the Joker character.

In fact at the time, it was considered a one shot. An imaginary story. An Elseworld tale. But the crippling of Barbara Gordon got written into the canon. I bought the thing the day of release on New Comics Day and read it. I thought it was "ok". Not what it had been ramped up to be. But what is? My biggest surprises were the unheralded stories. Like Moore's "American Gothic" in the "Saga Of The Swamp Thing".

I never got the impression Batman killed the Joker at the end of the story. They had their awkward laugh which everyone hated for being staged and phony. The sirens came. The Joker was loaded into a vehicle. The Joker was brought back to Arkham. Nothing at all gave me any other impression.

Edited by Randall Ries
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Agree with you there. The art in KJ is spectacular . In that matter, anything Bolland does is pretty awesome. My favourite story where the art and -script meld effortlessly is Arkham Asylum. Still my favourite Bat story alongside DKR.  

Writing wise for Moore, when you've got  V, Swamp Thing, MM etc, KJ won't factor into the equation. 

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