Congrats 4 4

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

[bernoulli]

This hobby is sick. A dealer has the audacity of market his wares to a growing crowd and gets hammered by collectors who have no interest in the pieces? Glen, good luck with your business, in Ethereum, USD or whatever currency you want to market your stuff.  

[zhamlau]

If you believe in Crypto (and ETH in particular), I can see someone trying to trade art for it after the last month’s price drop. To each their own.

[wurstisart]

Seriously guys, this whole thread is stupid from the get-go and I am already embarrassed to participate in this nonsense and especially a topic that is focused on trashing an individual.

 

If I would be a dealer and I can sell something to a clientele who owns rai stones as currency for crying out loud, and I could make money while doing so, I would.

 

Why? Because I am a dealer who has to make money. Well I am not a dealer, but I am trying to make a point. Having a personal problem with someone should not get discussed in this matter or here in these forums at all. If someone is offering an item over market price, let him do so. If you don’t like it, move on, if you do like it then buy the art, or ask if the dealer possibly offers you a discount. Haven’t we all done this over the years? I have made deals with all of the YouTube comic art dealers. And for the record, just recently bought a nice piece from Glen and I am super happy with it.

 

I am not taking any sides here, but all the dealers that are praised for online shows or trashed for the same, they are all the same. If you don’t like it, move on. Go and collect beanie babies, or whatever and hope that your collection remains at a certain value, meaning at least the prices don’t go down for you. I am collecting comic art for over 25 years now and there are stories about all of these YouTube dealers. And if any of what I write surprises you, then I don’t know what to say.

 

Back in the days when you saw who won a certain item on eBay, this particular item showed up a couple days later on that dealers website for….drumroll, exactly twice the price. Unfortunately for all you complainers, no forum like this existed to trash this particular dealer. And as much as I did not like the price increase as a collector, it makes sense. He is a dealer. He has to sell at a profit. With that profit he maybe can buy a larger collection and then offers these items to us collectors or buys a nice house for himself for crying out our. Like I said, he is a dealer and has to make a profit. Regardless whether it is a 5 % or a 100 % markup.

 

And during that time I learned, that if I am super serious about an item, I have to put in the best possible bet to get a chance to own it. I have lost many items because I was the underbidder by 10 bucks and now the item is twice the price. With that change in strategy, I saw that I won a lot of items on eBay against this particular art dealer.

 

Another nowadays YouTube comic art dealer I experienced when he was trying to buy a pile of art from a comic book dealer, who had limited knowledge of comic art, and he tried to lowball the seller with prices that were embarrassingly low. The seller thankfully declined, and as I was next in line, I walked up to the seller and bought some of the art for myself at asking price. That was probably 15 years ago and I still own these pieces, and yes comparable pages went up dramatically over the years. The pricing that the dealer offered was so low that I bet he would have easily marked it up 3 times on his website even back then.

Same applies here, he is a dealer. Totally understood. He tried to buy bulk, sort it and sell it. At a profit. If he would not do this, he would be out of business. I may not like his approach, but it’s logical.

 

Another dealer has a high price page on his website and that particular page doesn’t sell for 2 years, not online and not at shows, nationally or internationally, now the price of that particular piece was raised by 7000 USD. Same here, he adjusted the pricing because prices went up over the last 2 years. Maybe he doesn’t really want to sell it, then I understand the strategy as well. If I desperately want it, I will have to pay what he is asking or move on. End of story. He has the better cards on his hand.

 

I bought from all of the above described dealers and will continue to do so. And I have been happy with every transaction, and as I am not a dealer, but a collector, I know I have always been on the loosing end (financially) because the dealer is making the money with my trades or when I simply buy an item. You guys understand this, right?

 

Regarding crypto currency, and all the finance experts here, Glen clearly states he is accepting ETH or BTC, at least this is what I read. And what’s wrong with that thought? Maybe someone invested in ETH or BTC and has funds in his account and instead of selling the crypto currency you pay with it. Makes sense to me.

 

Or in other words, I may own 3 pages that I each paid 100 bucks for back in the days, now I trade these pages for a 9000 dollar page, that particular 9000 dollar page therefore cost me 300 bucks. Sure I could go and try to sell the 3 pages at possibly 3500 each, meaning I would have 1500 more in my pocket, but not everyone thinks like this. You have crypto available, use it.

 

Heritage Auctions is accepting crypto currency, so is Homedepot and Starbucks. Why not a comic art dealer?

 

I am already regretting commenting here as I know that a lot of you don’t like my comment and this probably will result in answers and comments back and forth and maybe bashing. This simply is my opinion on the comic art dealers topic, and it is not meant to be addressed to anyone in particular here, but more regarding the culture that we should have in these forums and that it is always wrong to single out one person out of a group, when in the end all they are all the same. I have made my point and will move on. I saw a few comic art updates on various comic art dealers websites and that’s what I will focus on this weekend, as I am a comic art collector, and I am glad we have dealers that are offering art to me.

 

I love you all, be kind and be good.

[New School Fool]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:21 AM, wurstisart said:

Back in the days when you saw who won a certain item on eBay, this particular item showed up a couple days later on that dealers website for….drumroll, exactly twice the price. Unfortunately for all you complainers, no forum like this existed to trash this particular dealer. And as much as I did not like the price increase as a collector, it makes sense. He is a dealer. He has to sell at a profit. With that profit he maybe can buy a larger collection and then offers these items to us collectors or buys a nice house for himself for crying out our. Like I said, he is a dealer and has to make a profit. Regardless whether it is a 5 % or a 100 % markup.

Sounds more like a flipper to me than a dealer...

I've heard it being said before that most dealers are collectors. Some understand the hobby and try to help collectors while others try to manipulate collectors for their own gain...

Glen initially mentioned (then retracted) he was only accepting ETH for a number of pieces. I wonder what percentage of users of this forum/regular customers of his hold Etherium? Have Heritage /Homedepot/Starbucks stated that they will only accept crypto currency for certain products? I wonder what it would do to their business if they did.

Yeah sure I don't have to buy it if I don't like it etc. etc. But I'm sure as hell free to express my opinion about it, especially on a forum designed to do so.

 

[Rick2you2]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:21 AM, wurstisart said:

Seriously guys, this whole thread is stupid from the get-go and I am already embarrassed to participate in this nonsense and especially a topic that is focused on trashing an individual.

 

If I would be a dealer and I can sell something to a clientele who owns rai stones as currency for crying out loud, and I could make money while doing so, I would.

 

Why? Because I am a dealer who has to make money. Well I am not a dealer, but I am trying to make a point. Having a personal problem with someone should not get discussed in this matter or here in these forums at all. If someone is offering an item over market price, let him do so. If you don’t like it, move on, if you do like it then buy the art, or ask if the dealer possibly offers you a discount. Haven’t we all done this over the years? I have made deals with all of the YouTube comic art dealers. And for the record, just recently bought a nice piece from Glen and I am super happy with it.

 

I am not taking any sides here, but all the dealers that are praised for online shows or trashed for the same, they are all the same. If you don’t like it, move on. Go and collect beanie babies, or whatever and hope that your collection remains at a certain value, meaning at least the prices don’t go down for you. I am collecting comic art for over 25 years now and there are stories about all of these YouTube dealers. And if any of what I write surprises you, then I don’t know what to say.

 

Back in the days when you saw who won a certain item on eBay, this particular item showed up a couple days later on that dealers website for….drumroll, exactly twice the price. Unfortunately for all you complainers, no forum like this existed to trash this particular dealer. And as much as I did not like the price increase as a collector, it makes sense. He is a dealer. He has to sell at a profit. With that profit he maybe can buy a larger collection and then offers these items to us collectors or buys a nice house for himself for crying out our. Like I said, he is a dealer and has to make a profit. Regardless whether it is a 5 % or a 100 % markup.

 

And during that time I learned, that if I am super serious about an item, I have to put in the best possible bet to get a chance to own it. I have lost many items because I was the underbidder by 10 bucks and now the item is twice the price. With that change in strategy, I saw that I won a lot of items on eBay against this particular art dealer.

 

Another nowadays YouTube comic art dealer I experienced when he was trying to buy a pile of art from a comic book dealer, who had limited knowledge of comic art, and he tried to lowball the seller with prices that were embarrassingly low. The seller thankfully declined, and as I was next in line, I walked up to the seller and bought some of the art for myself at asking price. That was probably 15 years ago and I still own these pieces, and yes comparable pages went up dramatically over the years. The pricing that the dealer offered was so low that I bet he would have easily marked it up 3 times on his website even back then.

Same applies here, he is a dealer. Totally understood. He tried to buy bulk, sort it and sell it. At a profit. If he would not do this, he would be out of business. I may not like his approach, but it’s logical.

 

Another dealer has a high price page on his website and that particular page doesn’t sell for 2 years, not online and not at shows, nationally or internationally, now the price of that particular piece was raised by 7000 USD. Same here, he adjusted the pricing because prices went up over the last 2 years. Maybe he doesn’t really want to sell it, then I understand the strategy as well. If I desperately want it, I will have to pay what he is asking or move on. End of story. He has the better cards on his hand.

 

I bought from all of the above described dealers and will continue to do so. And I have been happy with every transaction, and as I am not a dealer, but a collector, I know I have always been on the loosing end (financially) because the dealer is making the money with my trades or when I simply buy an item. You guys understand this, right?

 

Regarding crypto currency, and all the finance experts here, Glen clearly states he is accepting ETH or BTC, at least this is what I read. And what’s wrong with that thought? Maybe someone invested in ETH or BTC and has funds in his account and instead of selling the crypto currency you pay with it. Makes sense to me.

 

Or in other words, I may own 3 pages that I each paid 100 bucks for back in the days, now I trade these pages for a 9000 dollar page, that particular 9000 dollar page therefore cost me 300 bucks. Sure I could go and try to sell the 3 pages at possibly 3500 each, meaning I would have 1500 more in my pocket, but not everyone thinks like this. You have crypto available, use it.

 

Heritage Auctions is accepting crypto currency, so is Homedepot and Starbucks. Why not a comic art dealer?

 

I am already regretting commenting here as I know that a lot of you don’t like my comment and this probably will result in answers and comments back and forth and maybe bashing. This simply is my opinion on the comic art dealers topic, and it is not meant to be addressed to anyone in particular here, but more regarding the culture that we should have in these forums and that it is always wrong to single out one person out of a group, when in the end all they are all the same. I have made my point and will move on. I saw a few comic art updates on various comic art dealers websites and that’s what I will focus on this weekend, as I am a comic art collector, and I am glad we have dealers that are offering art to me.

 

I love you all, be kind and be good.

Frankly, I think this post is annoying. I don’t want to buy or learn how to buy crypto. I want to buy art. I sure as hell don’t want to go through a second set of hoops for a purchase and probably end up paying a premium for the effort (as I doubt I will catch it at a price downturn). Glenn could have, and in my opinion should have, post prices in both dollars and crypto.

 What’s so terrible about complaining about pricing? Why move on? Let someone vent and get it out of their system. Besides, it’s nice to know who others think price on the high side so we can think twice about buying something we cannot price ourselves. We also get to learn little things, like who plays games with their pieces or who has engaged in price manipulation. They are both instructive about the character of the dealer.

The boards, almost by definition, include gossip. You don’t like it, don’t read it.

[Sean I]

I would guess Ethereum was chosen in an attempt to lure the NFT crowd, since it seems their crypto of choice.  I don’t see that group moving in to OA for investments.  They’re speculators looking for high liquidity and easy quick flips, not consignment fees and trips to the FedEx or UPS centers.  They’d more likely be into the fractional ownership shares that can be traded.

I also don’t see as much of a difference between the YouTube dealers other than production value and showmanship.  It does seem odd to me that one group is embraced and the other scorned.  I’m newer to the hobby but I read all about the shill bidding blow up a few years back with the one and the other sweeps the market floor and cons of Morlock art and marks it up 300% to 400%.  

[Bird]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:21 AM, wurstisart said:

If you don’t like it, move on. Go and collect beanie babies

c'mon now...the "I am a true collector, you aren't" argument is sad. Love it or leave it eh?

On 1/28/2022 at 4:21 AM, wurstisart said:

a dealer who has to make money

I work with dealers sure (Scott Eder for one, 20+ years now) but I don't exist to subsidize the market or someone's livelihood. Yes they are in business. But it does not follow that we owe them a livelihood, they have to earn it same as you and me. And these days of collector to collector selling make it tough on them, yes. But I won't accept that their margins have to be a certain number "because they are a dealer". Burkey is a nurse; he is also Romitaman. If you are a dealer without a square job, good on ya'.

 

On 1/28/2022 at 4:21 AM, wurstisart said:

I am already regretting commenting here as I know that a lot of you don’t like my comment

so what? comment away but just be nice

[kbmcvay]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:21 AM, wurstisart said:

 I may own 3 pages that I each paid 100 bucks for back in the days, now I trade these pages for a 9000 dollar page, that particular 9000 dollar page therefore cost me 300 bucks. 

 

I have done this and I absolutely think this way.

[Twanj]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:21 AM, wurstisart said:

I know I have always been on the loosing end (financially) because the dealer is making the money with my trades or when I simply buy an item. You guys understand this, right?

 

I love you all, be kind and be good.

Great examples and good points. Thanks!

[kbmcvay]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:09 AM, Sean- said:

 

I also don’t see as much of a difference between the YouTube dealers other than production value and showmanship.  It does seem odd to me that one group is embraced and the other scorned.  I’m newer to the hobby but I read all about the shill bidding blow up a few years back with the one and the other sweeps the market floor and cons of Morlock art and marks it up 300% to 400%.  

I don't see much of a difference in those YouTube dealer shows either. They are all terrible to me, but I think the Comic Art Live one is even more insufferable than the one Bechara is on.

Care to name names? The shill bidder everybody knows is Romitaman. Who is the other one (I think I have a good idea)?

[Bird]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:09 AM, Sean- said:

the other sweeps the market floor and cons of Morlock art and marks it up 300% to 400%.  

this is what I expect middlemen to do and have no problem with it.

I watched some you tube but they were insufferable. And I am not paying for the right to watch/see the art first. I want too many things, I don't need to feed a hype machine due to FOMO, my money can go elsewhere.

[Guest Race]

The point of this post was to generate some truth about the state of the market, and it did that: Collectors are no longer seen as the primary means of revenue. I knew anecdotally b/c friends who made substantial money in crypto over the past two years and were looking for easier, more fungible assets to buy were being steered by professionals to OA and comics. Glen's action to price in ETH and subsequent admission confirmed that.

Did that make it personal for me? Yes. I hate the idea that our hobby is being co-opted by millionaires who could care less about the page's artist, writer, character or story. I hate the idea OA is not being purchased to be enjoyed (or shared via sites like CAF), but is being purchased to be stored in a safe until such day as the target ROI is fulfilled. To see OA become nothing but a gold bar is sad. 

I am glad Glen was honest, to a point. It's a business for him, he should make money. The fault is mine: I was naive enough to still believe the dealers still gave a damn about the core lovers/admirers of OA.

[MAR1979]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:36 AM, Race said:

The point of this post was to generate some truth about the state of the market, and it did that: Collectors are no longer seen as the primary means of revenue. I knew anecdotally b/c friends who made substantial money in crypto over the past two years and were looking for easier, more fungible assets to buy were being steered by professionals to OA and comics. Glen's action to price in ETH and subsequent admission confirmed that.

Did that make it personal for me? Yes. I hate the idea that our hobby is being co-opted by millionaires who could care less about the page's artist, writer, character or story. I hate the idea OA is not being purchased to be enjoyed (or shared via sites like CAF), but is being purchased to be stored in a safe until such day as the target ROI is fulfilled. To see OA become nothing but a gold bar is sad. 

I am glad Glen was honest, to a point. It's a business for him, he should make money. The fault is mine: I was naive enough to still believe the dealers still gave a damn about the core lovers/admirers of OA.

Once art (like covers or splashes) moved from 3 Figure's to 4 Figures 20 years ago it no longer was hobby but a business.  We are now in the days where an average non-action Marvel Superhero page from the 70's is 4 Figures and good action pages by B artist approach 5 figures.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by MAR1979

[kbmcvay]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:20 AM, MAR1979 said:

Once art (like covers or splashes) moved from 3 Figure's to 4 Figures 20 years ago it no longer was hobby but a business.  We are now in the days where an average non-action Marvel Superhero page from the 70's is 4 Figures and good action pages by B artist approach 5 figures.

 

20 years ago? That was 2002 and there was plenty of stuff higher than 3 figures by then (beyond covers and splashes too). There are ads from CBG in 1994 that have prices above 3 figures (not the norm but high end pieces were not out of the range of being over $1,000).

[MAR1979]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:42 AM, kbmcvay said:

20 years ago? That was 2002 and there was plenty of stuff higher than 3 figures by then (beyond covers and splashes too). There are ads from CBG in 1994 that have prices above 3 figures (not the norm but high end pieces were not out of the range of being over $1,000).

Nitpicking on the 20 year estimate aside, I think most grasp the idea that when prices in general moved to a certain threshold it was a business.

Edited January 28, 2022 by MAR1979

[Rick2you2]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:36 AM, Race said:

The point of this post was to generate some truth about the state of the market, and it did that: Collectors are no longer seen as the primary means of revenue. I knew anecdotally b/c friends who made substantial money in crypto over the past two years and were looking for easier, more fungible assets to buy were being steered by professionals to OA and comics. Glen's action to price in ETH and subsequent admission confirmed that.

Did that make it personal for me? Yes. I hate the idea that our hobby is being co-opted by millionaires who could care less about the page's artist, writer, character or story. I hate the idea OA is not being purchased to be enjoyed (or shared via sites like CAF), but is being purchased to be stored in a safe until such day as the target ROI is fulfilled. To see OA become nothing but a gold bar is sad. 

I am glad Glen was honest, to a point. It's a business for him, he should make money. The fault is mine: I was naive enough to still believe the dealers still gave a damn about the core lovers/admirers of OA.

This is how Tulipmania started—speculators who didn’t know squat about tulips. Let me add that you become part of the problem if you aren’t part of the solution—stop buying the overpriced art that you love and buy something else you can learn to love. Byrne’s X-Men work is excellent and expensive, but lots of his other work is way cheaper and he didn’t lose his skills, either (well, maybe on his Wonder Woman work, but that was probably his stylistic choice). Then, buy the anthology of the series. So, swear off and you won’t have reason to complain. By the way, I am not disagreeing with your anger, just suggesting you direct it towards a solution.

[exitmusicblue]

This is a kick-arse thread...

[zhamlau]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:20 AM, MAR1979 said:

Once art (like covers or splashes) moved from 3 Figure's to 4 Figures 20 years ago it no longer was hobby but a business. 

 

I’ve been saying this a while, despite the objections of people who are clearly wrong. This hasn’t been a “hobby” for many many years now. You used to be able to pick up a page for the cost of a lunch out, now it’s more in line with the cost of a mortgage payment.

[Timely]

On 1/30/2022 at 8:53 AM, zhamlau said:

I’ve been saying this a while, despite the objections of people who are clearly wrong. This hasn’t been a “hobby” for many many years now. You used to be able to pick up a page for the cost of a lunch out, now it’s more in line with the cost of a mortgage payment.

I disagree with this assessment. Just because a hobby now costs more than it once did, that does not preclude it from still being classified as a hobby. You want a cheap hobby that never goes up? Start a rock collection! Lots of inventory out there and 99.99999999999999% of it is free!