Unwitnessed Signing Question 0

[Extrovert]

I recently got this back from CGC. I really thought it would grade somewhere north of a 9. The most interesting part is that Gil Kane is "written" on page 1 in marker. I bought this comic at a FLA convention when I was maybe 14, likely a bit younger. I never opened the book, just kept it protected. I stupidly didn't look it over prior to submitting it for grading; because it was my first time submitting books and I didn't know any better. So now I have to wonder two things: 1. When they say written, does that mean it's a signature? 2. If it is a signature, and obviously CGC wouldn't recognize it as being genuine, could that reduce the grade? The grader notes make no mention of it.

[SOTIcollector]

1.  When CGC indicates “written”, that’s just what it is. Somebody wrote that name on the first page. It is very likely that somebody was Gil Kane himself, and that’s his signature. why would anybody else write that name on the first page?
However, CGC makes no attempt to indicate who wrote it, because they don’t know.

2. Yes.  Writing on the first page of a book that is a 2.0 might have no impact on the grade.  But I would expect that interior writing absolutely could and probably would lower the grade of a book that’s 8.0 or better.   Perhaps the book could have graded at a 9.0, or north of that, but the grade was knocked down because of the writing?  Sometimes a book like this might get a higher grade green label, indicating it is a qualified grade.

Edited February 3, 2022 by SOTIcollector
OMG! I used talk-to-text, and missed the fact that it spelled "write" as "right". I'm an insufficiently_thoughtful_person!

[William-James88]

What do the grader notes say?

[revat]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:05 AM, Calling All Monsters said:

Signatures only affect the grade when they are on the cover 

Mostly.  If they are extremely large, messy, or obtrusive, they can bring down the grade even if it’s on the interior.

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:11 PM, William-James88 said:

What do the grader notes say?

No mention in the notes, only in the "Label Text" portion.

11/22/2021Label Text

""Gil Kane"" written on page 1 in marker.

Art Comments

Gerry Conway story, John Romita cover
Gil Kane, John Romita
and Tony Mortellaro art

Grader Notes

spine stress lines breaks color
very light wear to cover

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:07 PM, SOTIcollector said:

1.  When CGC indicates “written”, that’s just what it is. Somebody wrote that name on the first page. It is very likely that somebody was Gil Kane himself, and that’s his signature. why would anybody else right that name on the first page?
However, CGC makes no attempt to indicate who wrote it, because they don’t know.

2. Yes.  Writing on the first page of a book that is a 2.0 might have no impact on the grade.  But I would expect that interior writing absolutely could and probably would lower the grade of a book that’s 8.0 or better.   Perhaps the book could have graded at a 9.0, or north of that, but the grade was knocked down because of the writing?  Sometimes a book like this might get a higher grade green label, indicating it is a qualified grade.

I was leaning in that direction as well, because the book's better than an 8.0, IMO. Thanks.

[StillOnly25Cents]

beautiful book and great addition to any collection, be proud

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:57 AM, Extrovert said:

1. When they say written, does that mean it's a signature?

2. If it is a signature, and obviously CGC wouldn't recognize it as being genuine, could that reduce the grade?

1. No.
2. No.

There appears to be edge wear, which would definitely affect the grade.

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:08 PM, StillOnly25Cents said:

beautiful book and great addition to any collection, be proud

Oh - I am. Thanks! 

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:09 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

1. No.
2. No.

There appears to be edge wear, which would definitely affect the grade.

Yep, you can see the wear on the top of the book. I believe that's what the grader is speaking of.

 

Grader Notes

spine stress lines breaks color
very light wear to cover

[Extrovert]

I bought both of these at the same convention, one from - if memory serves - the same seller as the #122. I wonder if the one I got from him will have a similar signature. Both of these are at CGC right now. 

[William-James88]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:05 PM, Extrovert said:

No mention in the notes, only in the "Label Text" portion.

11/22/2021Label Text

""Gil Kane"" written on page 1 in marker.

Art Comments

Gerry Conway story, John Romita cover
Gil Kane, John Romita
and Tony Mortellaro art

Grader Notes

spine stress lines breaks color
very light wear to cover

Ok, so the name written inside wouldn't have impacted the grade. Your comic's biggest flaw, giving it an 8.0, would be the colour breaks. At least from what I gather with the info given. 

[William-James88]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:36 PM, Calling All Monsters said:

You didn't count the pages before submitting? 

Is this a comic that comes with a pinup?

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:42 PM, William-James88 said:

Ok, so the name written inside wouldn't have impacted the grade. Your comic's biggest flaw, giving it an 8.0, would be the colour breaks. At least from what I gather with the info given. 

Thanks for your help.

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:36 PM, Calling All Monsters said:

You didn't count the pages before submitting? 

Bro, I didn't even crack a single copy open prior to submitting. It was my first time and I did it in a bit of a rush. I had to be in FLA for business and grabbed a stack of books that meant a lot to me and delivered them directly to CFP for cleaning and pressing. It was an absolute newb move. So far the possible page number issue hasn't been a problem. I sure wish I'd seen and photographed the "Gil Kane" writing on page 1 of my book. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Extrovert

[William-James88]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:07 PM, Extrovert said:

I was leaning in that direction as well, because the book's better than an 8.0, IMO. Thanks.

While it looks great, it does indeed have the number of flaws we'd see on a 8.0 and not higher. CGC is tight on grading and in 99.99% of cases, the eye appeal of a book will not be enough to make up for wear. 

You can check CGC 9.0s and you'll see that your comic has more ticks along the edge than those.

[SOTIcollector]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:33 PM, Calling All Monsters said:

Green labels are only for sigs on the cover. Sigs inside get a blue and rarely affect the grade.

I learned something today.   Thanks for the info.

It seems ridiculous to me, because a defect is a defect.  I'd expect writing on the cover to be a bigger hit to the grade than writing inside, but I'd still expect the writing inside to impact the grade.  So does this apply to all grades? Could I have a 9.8 with writing inside?  I'd personally consider an otherwise-9.8 book with writing inside to be equivalent to, say, a 9.4.  Would CGC still call it a 9.8 blue?

[Ryan.]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:00 PM, SOTIcollector said:

Could I have a 9.8 with writing inside?  I'd personally consider an otherwise-9.8 book with writing inside to be equivalent to, say, a 9.4.  Would CGC still call it a 9.8 blue?

Yup. I've owned many. 

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 4:59 PM, William-James88 said:

While it looks great, it does indeed have the number of flaws we'd see on a 8.0 and not higher. CGC is tight on grading and in 99.99% of cases, the eye appeal of a book will not be enough to make up for wear. 

You can check CGC 9.0s and you'll see that your comic has more ticks along the edge than those.

Yeah, I'm still learning the ropes. The first 121 I posted is really clean. My presser, Joey,  figured it for a mid 9+. It will do better than an 8. I figure the second one to be an 8. I also sent a lot of more modern ASM keys that will definitely grade in the 9s. Newstand editions - which is another convo I'd like to venture into. I'll keep everyone up to date with what happens. I'm just enjoying chatting about the hobby with like minded people. For me, I'm 55, I've had some of these comics for 40 or more years. Having them graded, well, it's just a blast.

[Extrovert]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:26 PM, Calling All Monsters said:

Nice - that helps. Cheers!