Opinion: What do you think are the top five of the Golden Age Pedigree collections? 3 3

[PDGray]

I think most of us would probably agree that the Church Collection is probably the number one pedigree, since all others seem to be measured against it.  But what do you think?

 

PDG

[sagii]

For me: 

Church (no explanation needed)

Allentown (small, tough to acquire, top level copies of some major keys)

Crippen (huge, affordable)

Billy Wright (not too large, but lots of early books, and top gold Overstreet list books) many may disagree with this one, but does it for me.

Okajima (story, fetches some great prices even on mid grade books with camp code).

Ones i considered

******Promise has the size and grades, but not many 'major keys'

******San Francisco- but  lots of unidentified/'lost' books out there? (please Correct me if I'm wrong on this). 

[Mmehdy]

1- Church

2-Promise as more and more books come on board thru auctions gets more impressive as time goes on

3 Allentown

4-SF

5-Crippen

[Robot Man]

Church

Allentown

San Francisco

Larson

Okajima

Runner up…Crippen

[jimbo_7071]

1. Church

2. San Francisco

3. Ohio

4. Lost Valley

5. Billy Wright

[Cat-Man_America]

In the ring:

1- Church, the undisputed champ, an artist with style, grace and longevity

2- San Francisco/Reilly, the most intriguing old school contender, mysterious, classic style with high quality movement 

3- Promise Collection, the newcomer with unsurpassed hype and manager promotion; great back story looks like William Randolph Hearst wrote it.

4- Allentown, smaller scale fighter with some key bouts and grade performance

5- Larson, fan favorite, rags to riches story, well documented

Honorable long boxers:

6- Crippen, all over the place, takes on all comers 

7- Billy Wright, short boxer with a solid punch

8- Okajima, poignant back story, an underdog favorite

Edited February 4, 2022 by Cat-Man_America
Ale added!

[lou_fine]

On 2/3/2022 at 6:29 PM, Robot Man said:

Church

Allentown

San Francisco

Larson

Okajima

Runner up…Crippen

Pretty much the same as I got as the first 4 is a slam dunk and also in the exact same order, with both the Church and Allentown clearly in the lead. 

As for the pedigree in 5th position, it was pretty much a toss-up between the Pennsylvania and the Hawkeye.  After giving it some thought, even though the Penn's are much more well known, from the less well known Hawkeye's which I have seen, they are clearly nicer and sharper than the Penn copies, so it would be the Hawkeye's for me.  

Gave some thought to slotting the Promise Collection books into that 5th position, but too early to tell with all of the hype that's on these books right now.  In addition, that later time period is not my main area of interest, but probably the other big factor is that the seeming inconsistent grading by CGC for these books have certainly damaged the reputation of this pedigree for me at this current point in time.  

[buttock]

Surprised at all the love the Allentown collection is getting.  While it does have a handful of top tier keys, it's at least matched on that level by the Larson, Windy City, and Kansas City finds; and the Larson and Windy Citys had much deeper runs.  

 

But the question should also be clarified.  Are you asking which collection would you rather have in aggregate, or which collection would you prefer to have a single comic from.  That is, is it the quality of the collection, or quality of the books in the collection.  

[Rip]

Basicly the same thing Cat-man said

Church (The best of many super keys including Action 1, huge depth, very white fresh books)

San Francisco/Reilly (Great color, many really nice high grade key books)

Promise Collection (Lots of top grade books, very nice looking still finding the depth)

Allentown (While small its also got very high grade books, also has the top tec 27 and Cap 1 among many other key no 1's)

Larson (Lots of mega keys)

Edited February 4, 2022 by Rip

[PDGray]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:54 AM, buttock said:

Surprised at all the love the Allentown collection is getting.  While it does have a handful of top tier keys, it's at least matched on that level by the Larson, Windy City, and Kansas City finds; and the Larson and Windy Citys had much deeper runs.  

 

But the question should also be clarified.  Are you asking which collection would you rather have in aggregate, or which collection would you prefer to have a single comic from.  That is, is it the quality of the collection, or quality of the books in the collection.  

 

I intentionally left the question a bit vague - because I believed it would elicit more widely varied responses - which is what I am looking for!  I wanted to stimulate the conversation and perhaps learn a bit along the life of this particular thread.

So, the answer to your question is simply whatever you would choose - the quality of the collection of the quality of the books in the collection or any other criteria you choose.  

I am relatively new to the pedigree arena.  I have purchased a few in the last six months and am starting to plan out how to move forward - which collections I should really start targeting and that sort of thing.  This seemed like a good idea to spark the topic.

 

 

PDG

[Robot Man]

The San Francisco collection might be my sentimental favorite.

Long before the notion of “pedigrees” this collection began dispersing on the West Coast in small groups with no real fanfare.

Redbeard was in on them early. I remember almost drooling over a small pile he had picked up. They were as breathtaking as the Church copies. There was a lot of buzz because no one knew how many there were and any backstory.

Ron deemed them the “Frisco” copies. They began turning up in dealer’s boxes up and down the West Coast circuit.

I remember going to the American Comic Book company one day. In the back room was a stack of them. Terry Stroud told me he got them from Bob Beerbohm. Sadly, NONE were for sale.

I made several trips up to the Bay Area and picked up a few from Bob. He would only let me buy 3 or 4 at a time because he was “rashioning” them out.

There was just something magical about pulling one out of a dealer box and seeing those markings or that “Riley” stamp on the back.

Like the Church books, seeing one book by it’s self took your breath away. But seeing a small unbagged stack was mind blowing.

I truly treasure the few I still have left and realize that is all I am likely ever going to own. 

[MrBedrock]

1) Church

2) all others tied for second

[sfcityduck]

To me, the pedigrees that are most likely to add value over an equivalent book in the long-term are:

1. Okajima camp books - GREAT back story about the history of the Japanese internment, OO was clearly a huge comic fan who preserved the comics through her time in the camp, and the irony of the WWII anti-Japanese books being in this collection ticks every historical coolness factor in existence.

2. Promise - 'nuff said.

3. Gaines - EC association copies once owned by the great Bill Gaines - clearly better than owning an ordinary EC in the same condition.

4. Chinatown - Really interesting back story about a blue collar immigrant from China who collected the comics to aid his acquisition of English (and they are presently very rare on the marketplace).  I think the interesting story and weird geographic twist could make these an item folks will seek out just for the uniqueness.

5. Pay Copies - Ok, a cheat for sure.  But the Lloyd Jacquet "Pay Copies" deserve "pedigree status" because they probably have the best provenance of any pre-WWII books and are among the most interesting comics ever!

 

 

 

[Timely]

Long term I’d go with the whitest, freshest pedigrees. In 100 years from now the pedigrees with average page quality now will probably be slightly brittle or brittle while Mile Highs and San Francisco’s will be off-white at the worst (all things being equal).

 

Not that we care what things will be like in 100 years, but eventually the time will come when conserved books will be more valued than the others as books that are deacidified will outlive the rest by 100’s of years. Again, no one thinks of that now, but future generations will wish we had! 

[Mmehdy]

anyone have a idea how much ;the promise collection has generated so far.... that and church have to be the top 2?

 

[Straw-Man]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:46 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

In the ring:

1- Church, the undisputed champ, an artist with style, grace and longevity

2- San Francisco/Reilly, the most intriguing old school contender, mysterious, classic style with high quality movement 

3- Promise Collection, the newcomer with unsurpassed hype and manager promotion; great back story looks like William Randolph Hearst wrote it.

4- Allentown, smaller scale fighter with some key bouts and grade performance

5- Larson, fan favorite, rags to riches story, well documented

Honorable long boxers:

6- Crippen, all over the place, takes on all comers 

7- Billy Wright, short boxer with a solid punch

8- Okajima, poignant back story, an underdog favorite

I’ll go with this list, not necessarily the order 2-5. 

[LearnedHand]

I like the idea of "pedigree" comic books, but full disclosure: I think many are just the product of creative marketing. "No name" comics are seen as less valuable than "name" comics.  Makes people feel more comfortable shelling out big bucks, thinking the return is more secure.  

Also think it's tough to have a legit opinion on pedigree hierarchy (i.e. book quality) without having held the books in-hand to appreciate the differences.  A cover scan can't convey how a SF copy feels and smells like it came out of a time machine, or the dripping gloss on a MH or Promise book.      

Now that CGC has decided to tell the market what a "pedigree" is, rather than allow fandom to still decide, there are ~60 pedigrees, many with varying quality, including some that, on balance, aren't comprised of consistent high-grade copies with fresh PQ. 

There are many great collections out there, including many of the "pedigrees" already named.  For me, however, the collections that epitomize "pedigree" are the San Francisco and Mile High, with honorable mention to the Allentown, Gaines, Chicago, and Spokane.  

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by LearnedHand

[Larryw7]

My personal favorite is Bethlehem. I know the books aren't always uber high grade, and the page quality can vary, but I love the store stamp on the back cover, and the general era the books are from. Of course, Church is the best, especially the early issues with the coding. 

[lou_fine]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:32 AM, sfcityduck said:

4. Chinatown - Really interesting back story about a blue collar immigrant from China who collected the comics to aid his acquisition of English (and they are presently very rare on the marketplace). 

Well, very rare only because the purchaser who brought the collection from the OO has not yet released any of the books into the marketplace.  

That is, unless you are interested in purchasing some late Four Colors or funny animal books from the mid 50's time period which even he doesn't want.  

Then again, these were pretty much far and away the highest graded books in the Chinatown collection, out of the ones that were graded.  

Edited February 5, 2022 by lou_fine

[MrBedrock]

On 2/5/2022 at 1:59 AM, lou_fine said:

Well, very rare only because the purchaser who brought the collection from the OO has not yet released any of the books into the marketplace.  

That is, unless you are interested in purchasing some late Four Colors or funny animal books from the mid 50's time period which even he doesn't want.  

Then again, these were pretty much far and away the highest graded books in the Chinatown collection, out of the ones that were graded.  

And your point is?