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I’ve only been wrong for 20 years or so
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29 posts in this topic

So recently, disenchanted with the prices of the silver age keys and even the bronze age keys that I tend to chase, I decided to go after some of the “bronze age“ books of my late teens/early 20’s books that I bought off the stands and read when I first collected seriously. 
 

I was surprised to find out that, depending  upon the source, of the definition of Copper Age, those Bronze Age books that I read off the rack were really copper age books.  Apparently I was reading in collecting right through the transition from bronze to copper.

So X-Men then I bought off the stands were predominantly early copper, but the earlier back issues I tracked down were bronze.  
 

so yeah, kind of surprised to figure that out. Turns out there are a lot of books I’m interested in hiding in the copper section of this website. Not just that, but I’ve seen some copper books masquerading as Bronze Age books in the sales forums. The line of demarcation is blurry, so I’m going to forgive myself for my own 20+ year-old misattribution. 

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On 2/20/2022 at 9:28 PM, Westy Steve said:

So recently, disenchanted with the prices of the silver age keys and even the bronze age keys that I tend to chase, I decided to go after some of the “bronze age“ books of my late teens/early 20’s books that I bought off the stands and read when I first collected seriously. 
 

I was surprised to find out that, depending  upon the source, of the definition of Copper Age, those Bronze Age books that I read off the rack were really copper age books.  Apparently I was reading in collecting right through the transition from bronze to copper.

So X-Men then I bought off the stands were predominantly early copper, but the earlier back issues I tracked down were bronze.  
 

so yeah, kind of surprised to figure that out. Turns out there are a lot of books I’m interested in hiding in the copper section of this website. Not just that, but I’ve seen some copper books masquerading as Bronze Age books in the sales forums. The line of demarcation is blurry, so I’m going to forgive myself for my own 20+ year-old misattribution. 

 

I don't think its you.    I think the line between copper and bronze used to be reasonably clear but recently people have started shifting the goalposts.

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Someone was telling me Copper starts with Jim Shooters "Little Bang" theory.  When I asked for a date, he was lost.  I use the price increases, as do many people. 

Even that isn't unified as some use 40 cents as the cutoff, other use .50 and some use .60. 

I say it's a personal choice. I've recently started segregating my twenty and twentyfive cent books so I'm splitting my Bronze Age in two.

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I didn’t want this thread to disintegrate into a “when did it start“ conversation, but I did notice that the independent comic companies started up about that time.  Then the older companies (Dc, Marvel) had to respond to the new threat so they seem to create a lot of interconnected stories like crossover‘s, Crises on earths, secret wars, etc. To me when the copper age started depends on which kind of company you’re talking about. Those who pushed new territory, or those who responded to the corporate threat. 

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On 2/21/2022 at 12:49 PM, shadroch said:

Someone was telling me Copper starts with Jim Shooters "Little Bang" theory.  When I asked for a date, he was lost.  I use the price increases, as do many people. 

Even that isn't unified as some use 40 cents as the cutoff, other use .50 and some use .60. 

I say it's a personal choice. I've recently started segregating my twenty and twentyfive cent books so I'm splitting my Bronze Age in two.

I had the same questions when I started acquiring 80's comics many, many moons ago. Some put the start of copper at early 1979 with Frank Millers 1st run on Daredevil, others put it as late as 1984 with the release of TMNT #1. hm

I only collect copper Marvel/DC as newsstands but also have a few fat diamonds from 80 & 81. After a few years acquiring 80's comics I realized that my collection made the choice. For me, copper begins with the introduction of the CPV's in Oct. 1982. If you need a specific issue then say Wolverine Limited #1 which was released in Sept. 1982.  After that date, if it's Marvel or DC, then it must be a newsstand for me to be a buyer but prior, I'm o.k. with bronze fat diamond directs.

Do what works for you and let everybody else argue the merits of when the copper age began for them. (thumbsu

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/28/2022 at 10:46 PM, ramrod44 said:

I had the same questions when I started acquiring 80's comics many, many moons ago. Some put the start of copper at early 1979 with Frank Millers 1st run on Daredevil, others put it as late as 1984 with the release of TMNT #1. hm

I only collect copper Marvel/DC as newsstands but also have a few fat diamonds from 80 & 81. After a few years acquiring 80's comics I realized that my collection made the choice. For me, copper begins with the introduction of the CPV's in Oct. 1982. If you need a specific issue then say Wolverine Limited #1 which was released in Sept. 1982.  After that date, if it's Marvel or DC, then it must be a newsstand for me to be a buyer but prior, I'm o.k. with bronze fat diamond directs.

Do what works for you and let everybody else argue the merits of when the copper age began for them. (thumbsu

 

 

 

 

 

I like the idea of the copper age starting with the introduction of CPVs.

That would be Wolvy 2 though :baiting:

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Yeah the lines are not clear. I usually go with:

Copper starts with Miller. 

Miller killed Elektra in 82. Wolverine Limited Series was 82, a very grounded take on a superhero. Ronin was 83.
 

Byrne/Austin X-Men is Bronze. 
Byrne on Fantastic Four is Copper. 

X-Men 141,142 to me, really closes the end of Bronze with the apex of that era and serious death of X-Men DOFP.

It’s not my perfect system, but that’s all I got. 

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On 3/2/2022 at 2:58 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I consider pretty much any mini-series as Copper, except for the early DC experiments. Also, any licensed toy book (G.I. Joe, Transformers, etc.). So early-mid 1982 is the sweet spot for the start of Copper.

I agree.  I find the topic of ages interesting, and as I am primarily a Copper collector, I am most interested in that.

Debated this a while ago, but ultimately I land on 1982 for similar reasons--GI Joe #1 and Miller's Wolverine chief among them.  It's just not fair to lump those in with Bronze books which generally have a much different feel, in my view.  I know some people start Copper as late as like 1984, but that cuts off years of Joes and other stuff and barely catches Transformers.  

The "end" is debatable, however I put it at 1992.  The early 90s shift is extremely noticeable in the stuff I was into like Hulk, Wolverine, X-Men, and ASM.  And, probably most importantly, McFarlane, Lee, and Silvestri leaving for Image in February 1992.  1992 also works because there is even a shift between related stuff like Infinity Gauntlet (1991) versus Infinity War and Crusade (1992-1993).  I therefore cap Copper at December 1991.  

So Copper starts early 1982 and ends December 1991.

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On 3/4/2022 at 2:21 PM, Poekaymon said:

I agree.  I find the topic of ages interesting, and as I am primarily a Copper collector, I am most interested in that.

Debated this a while ago, but ultimately I land on 1982 for similar reasons--GI Joe #1 and Miller's Wolverine chief among them.  It's just not fair to lump those in with Bronze books which generally have a much different feel, in my view.  I know some people start Copper as late as like 1984, but that cuts off years of Joes and other stuff and barely catches Transformers.  

The "end" is debatable, however I put it at 1992.  The early 90s shift is extremely noticeable in the stuff I was into like Hulk, Wolverine, X-Men, and ASM.  And, probably most importantly, McFarlane, Lee, and Silvestri leaving for Image in February 1992.  1992 also works because there is even a shift between related stuff like Infinity Gauntlet (1991) versus Infinity War and Crusade (1992-1993).  I therefore cap Copper at December 1991.  

So Copper starts early 1982 and ends December 1991.

I think you can split Copper into "early Copper" ending around 1991/1992 (start of Image & Valiant, death of Superman), and "late Copper" ending around 1997. I chose then because that's when a lot of the Indy superhero universes folded – Valiant, Ultraverse, Milestone, Comics Greatest World – and Image made a shift away from strictly superhero books. That's also when Marvel relaunched many of their long-running series. (I think Uncanny X-Men is the only long-running book that hadn't been relaunched by around that time.)

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On 3/6/2022 at 4:36 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I think you can split Copper into "early Copper" ending around 1991/1992 (start of Image & Valiant, death of Superman), and "late Copper" ending around 1997. I chose then because that's when a lot of the Indy superhero universes folded – Valiant, Ultraverse, Milestone, Comics Greatest World – and Image made a shift away from strictly superhero books. That's also when Marvel relaunched many of their long-running series. (I think Uncanny X-Men is the only long-running book that hadn't been relaunched by around that time.)

LOL

NOOO!!

Oh my god, none of this early copper late copper, half copper ages...

We still classify modern which spans for 30 years, the longest era of them all. I love copper, clearly, but it has a distinct end.

 

I agree with Poekeymon... there is a definite shift in comic tones. MCP 72, Wolverine Origin is 1991, feels very different than Liefeld's Youngblood, or Venom: Lethal Protector

Edited by D2
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On 3/7/2022 at 10:55 AM, D2 said:

LOL

NOOO!!

Oh my god, none of this early copper late copper, half copper ages...

We still classify modern which spans for 30 years, the longest era of them all. I love copper, clearly, but it has a distinct end.

 

I agree with Poekeymon... there is a definite shift in comic tones. MCP 72, Wolverine Origin is 1991, feels very different than Liefeld's Youngblood, or Venom: Lethal Protector

Yeah, I am much more flexible on dates for the "start" than the "end."  I've heard some good arguments for moving the starting date around a bit based on various runs and whatnot.  But I simply refuse to let it go past 1992.  Claremont, probably my favorite writer (along with Peter David) of the 80s left X-Men.  And although I love them, McFarlane and Lee went a long way to killing Copper with the variant bonanza around their respective X-Men and Spider-Man offerings.  And then Image and the inexplicable explosion of the single worst man in the history of comics.  Then there were all the other gimmicks, like including cards, hologram covers, which I hardly, if ever saw in the 80s, but which by like 92-94 were everywhere. 

But part of the problem is the 25-35 span (under any definition) of "Modern."  We have collectors now who aren't even as old as some of the "modern era" books.  Probably need to add another age like the Plastic Age (1992-2004) and the Digital Age (2005-present).  Though that 2004 separation is arbitrary--I don't have any idea what happened between like 1992-2005. I will say that I've seen a decent amount of good stuff after 2010 (in omnibuses I have picked up) but very little of note in the 15-20 or so years before that.  

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On 3/10/2022 at 12:40 AM, Poekaymon said:

Yeah, I am much more flexible on dates for the "start" than the "end."  I've heard some good arguments for moving the starting date around a bit based on various runs and whatnot.  But I simply refuse to let it go past 1992.  Claremont, probably my favorite writer (along with Peter David) of the 80s left X-Men.  And although I love them, McFarlane and Lee went a long way to killing Copper with the variant bonanza around their respective X-Men and Spider-Man offerings.  And then Image and the inexplicable explosion of the single worst man in the history of comics.  Then there were all the other gimmicks, like including cards, hologram covers, which I hardly, if ever saw in the 80s, but which by like 92-94 were everywhere. 

But part of the problem is the 25-35 span (under any definition) of "Modern."  We have collectors now who aren't even as old as some of the "modern era" books.  Probably need to add another age like the Plastic Age (1992-2004) and the Digital Age (2005-present).  Though that 2004 separation is arbitrary--I don't have any idea what happened between like 1992-2005. I will say that I've seen a decent amount of good stuff after 2010 (in omnibuses I have picked up) but very little of note in the 15-20 or so years before that.  

Yeah I’ve often petitioned for a change but I think a company like CGC will be the only ones to do it. 
They could even make the argument that they need a new category to help with processing, who cares…

They are just too afraid to do it. If CBCS was smart, they’d do it and actually gain some clout in the industry because their verified signature program ruined them. 
 

Copper to 92. I agree. 
There can always be the Modern 92-02

Followed by the Post Modern 03-2013

And Current Age is 2014-now

 

or rename Modern, like you said, to Paper age, Chromium Age, Variant Age, Renaissance Age… whatever.

First have a submission site, where people can put in their requests. 

Then the top 5-10 names from that are put into a poll… bam. Democracy 

 

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On 3/1/2022 at 2:51 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I like the idea of the copper age starting with the introduction of CPVs.

That would be Wolvy 2 though :baiting:

I've always wondered, what version of Wolvie 1 did the Canadians get, before they went with the full CPV.

There's 3 or more insignia box's on issue 1, surely one of them applies to the Canadian market??

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On 9/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Microchip said:

I've always wondered, what version of Wolvie 1 did the Canadians get, before they went with the full CPV.

There's 3 or more insignia box's on issue 1, surely one of them applies to the Canadian market??

There's just the direct & $.60 newsstand....no?   All of our newsstands were priced the same as yours up until Wolvy 2.  I have tons of 60 cent newsstands in my childhood collection.

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1982-the end of 1992; For me that covers CPV’s, toy line comics (Joe’s, Transformers, He-Man, MASK, etc), Wolverine, Punisher, Frank Miller Batman/DKR, Killing Joke, Death in the Family, Usagi, TMNT vol 1, Grendel, Secret Wars, Venom (within ASM), The Crow, early Manga in the US (Akira, Macross/Robotech), and early Dark Horse (DHP, Aliens, Predator, AVP, Sin City and Terminator).

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