Complimentary not to be sold printed on cover 2 2

[CDorin]

Hello, I have looked around and only found posts about stamped complementary copies. This one is actually printed on the cover. Manufactured with complimentary not to be sold directly on it. Asked the comic shops around me and nobody had ever heard about that. Just wondering if anyone more knowledgeable knows what they were produced for / how many / if there’s a market for this.

thanks!

[Stronguy]

That's really interesting.  I'm betting it's still a stamp but it looks like it was applied to the paper before it was run through the press (which seem like a pain in the butt).  It's possible that they made a special, black plate by stamping a page and shooting it then put it in the first spot on the press ahead of the regular cover.  That also seems like a pain in the butt, however, it would allow them to lay it down consistently in the same place.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 2/23/2022 at 7:56 AM, Stronguy said:

That's really interesting.  I'm betting it's still a stamp but it looks like it was applied to the paper before it was run through the press (which seem like a pain in the butt).  It's possible that they made a special, black plate by stamping a page and shooting it then put it in the first spot on the press ahead of the regular cover.  That also seems like a pain in the butt, however, it would allow them to lay it down consistently in the same place.

that can't be printed, it wouldn't knock-out the Avengers logo, the logo would overprint and be more visible. This looks like a dye stamp and not a normal printing ink applied to the paper pre-print. I bet no 2 are alike.

Edited February 23, 2022 by MyNameIsLegion

[Get Marwood & I]

There are quite a few comics with 'Not To Be Sold' stamps to be found online, but this is the first one I have seen where - as Stronguy says - the stamp looks like it was applied before the cover was printed. 

Here's another of the same stamp type - it's difficult to determine whether this is a pre or post printing example though - after, from the looks of what can be seen where it meets colour:

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:34 AM, CDorin said:

Just wondering if anyone more knowledgeable knows what they were produced for / how many / if there’s a market for this.

thanks!

Cdorin, I like this kind of thing but I don't think there is a market for it as such. If you search eBay you'll find lots of available examples - but none that have sold (that I can see). A fun thing, but likely not a thing that increases the value. 

[MyNameIsLegion]

now this is printed. Used to see this a lot.

[Get Marwood & I]

From one of those eBay listings:

 

[MyNameIsLegion]

these other examples that Marwood posted look to have been stamped after printing, and not before like the OP example.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/23/2022 at 2:21 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

now this is printed. Used to see this a lot.

I've got one of those 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/23/2022 at 2:24 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

these other examples that Marwood posted look to have been stamped after printing, and not before like the OP example.

I agree. 

Can you expand on your comment here Legion:

On 2/23/2022 at 2:13 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

that can't be printed, it wouldn't knock-out the Avengers logo, the logo would overprint and be more visible. This looks like a dye stamp and not a normal printing ink applied to the paper pre-print. I bet no 2 are alike.

I'm not sure I get what you mean by 'knock out'?

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:26 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I agree. 

Can you expand on your comment here Legion:

I'm not sure I get what you mean by 'knock out'?

when you print a light color adjacent to a darker color that don't share common color, when you cut the color, or digitally when you build the separations, you would have to build a knock out. So if it was a pink circle in a green square, the yellow and cyan plates would show a circle in the middle of the square and the magenta plate would have just a circle.  They would often "choke" or spread the knocked out shape so that there was a tiny bit of overlap so that if they did not lay down the inks precisely on press for each color there would be a hairline of overlap. This called "trapping" the color. But you can't overprint a lighter color onto a darker color. It's additive. It would just be darker. A red Circle overprinted a green square would be red on green and would be a brown circle.  Now with four color process, choke and spread of the overlapping colors is less important, because more often than not they will share colors since everything is 4C process and not spot inks.

Edited February 23, 2022 by MyNameIsLegion

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/23/2022 at 2:40 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

when you print a light color adjacent to a darker color that don't share common color, when you cut the color, or digitally when you build the separations, you would have to build a knock out. So if it was a pink circle in a green square, the yellow and cyan plates would show a circle in the middle and the magenta plate would have circle.  They would often "choke" or spread the knocked out shape so that there wa sa tiny bit of overlap so that if they did not lay down the inks precisely on press for each color there would be a hairline of overlap. But you can't overprint a lighter color onto a darker color. It's additive. It would just be darker. A red Circle overprinted a green square would be red on green and would be a brown circle.  

Got ya.

In this example though, if, say, the blank cover paper was stamped with the Complimentary stamp first, and then run through the normal cover printing process, is this not how it would look?

In these old Spidey examples of mine below, it looks to me like the plates were run out of order and the red ink was applied over the black in error:

Rather than blend, the red appears to sit above the preceding colours and is strong enough to almost wipe out the black underneath.

That is what I'm seeing on that Avengers #109 - the colours from the cover plates have covered the black of the stamp that preceded them.

Whaddaya think? Am I taking a load of old guff? I'm not a printer!

[comicginger1789]

I've always assumed these were just stamped on there by some place back the day as part of a giveaway? Perhaps comic shops or newsstands or someplace ordered them as giveaways? Maybe Marvel donated them to a school or library or something and they were stamped as such? I don't have any like this personally but I know I have a couple labelled as File Copies Do Not Sell...I'll have to dig those out. Again, these are different but kind of the same premise...given out and stamped as such so as not to be sold.

As for demand, I mean I picked up the issues I have for dollars because people viewed the stamps as negative. I thought they were fun so I picked them up but I would not say there is a huge market for them, at least not one I am aware of. 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Here's some info:

 

[shadroch]

I own a lot of books with a complimenty stamp on them and I've never noticed one that was stamped before it was printed.  Now I want one.  I'll check on the ones I have but this seems pretty unique and has my attention.  I hope someone comes up with an explanation.

[Stronguy]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:13 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

that can't be printed, it wouldn't knock-out the Avengers logo, the logo would overprint and be more visible. This looks like a dye stamp and not a normal printing ink applied to the paper pre-print. I bet no 2 are alike.

I'm not following what you're saying.  It looks like a stamp to me but wouldn't it be a massive pain to unroll several hundred feet of paper to stamp this on it, re-roll it, then print the cover?  How else can you explain the logo and other artwork covering it?

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:51 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Got ya.

In this example though, if, say, the blank cover paper was stamped with the Complimentary stamp first, and then run through the normal cover printing process, is this not how it would look?

In these old Spidey examples of mine below, it looks to me like the plates were run out of order and the red ink was applied over the black in error:

Rather than blend, the red appears to sit above the preceding colours and is strong enough to almost wipe out the black underneath.

That is what I'm seeing on that Avengers #109 - the colours from the cover plates have covered the black of the stamp that preceded them.

Whaddaya think? Am I taking a load of old guff? I'm not a printer!

In your Spidey example - what you are likely seeing is the black ink was running weak on the press at some point during the run. It’s unlikely they ran out of order, they wiiks have to reverse the plates. Black can and is often a rock black meaning it is comprised of 100k and some %of CMY. If you print heavy CMY you can fake a black but it’s weak. During a press run ink is applied to the well feeding the rollers. Their can be variations as a result. This is most obvious in colors that are a mix like a purple, where the precise % of blue or red will drastically change the hue.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:26 AM, Stronguy said:

I'm not following what you're saying.  It looks like a stamp to me but wouldn't it be a massive pain to unroll several hundred feet of paper to stamp this on it, re-roll it, then print the cover?  How else can you explain the logo and other artwork covering it?

That’s what I mean - the Avengers one had to have been applied to the paper before printing unlike the other examples where it’s clearly stamped on top. And there’s something about the ink of the stamp that makes the overprint less obvious (and harder to read actually) then you would expect if it had been printed. Although overprinting could produce a similar result, but it’s gonna look bad and dry weird and not take to the paper right. The only time you print ink over ink typically is with screen printing. You can’t print anything on a dark shirt without first printing a white underlay and they printing the color on top of that. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by MyNameIsLegion

[CDorin]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:50 AM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Here's some info:

 

Thanks I saw and read these but as previous people mention here this comic was (apparently) stamped before printing, not after. In the examples stamped after, it’s easy for anyone to just make a rubber stamp and apply it to any copy. This is quite different as it was printed overtop.

[Get Marwood & I]