THE BATMAN spoilers thread 2 2

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:48 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You made some stuff up to pretend that whispering monotone for 3 hours somehow conveys complex emotions, sure, but that's asinine.

In order for Batman to be "a brawler", he would need to look like someone who works out more than once a week. This could have been solved by simply not including a shirtless scene, where it is completely transparent that there is no definition to his shoulders whatsoever (just 1 example). You can workout routinely and be fit+tone without the same bulk as other guys. He looks like a wimp. Again, just remove the shirtless scene and this wouldn't even be a discussion.

I'm not accepting any excuses for the 1-dimensional performance. Batman is a human being and I expect him to act like one. The duality of Batman and Bruce Wayne is a necessary one for me to give a s^&* about what his characters say and do.

Oh, so I did provide counter-points that you then claimed I didn't. You just disagreed with them?

I see. And I should calm down? 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Yeah, all of the Batman fight/intimidation scenes were well done. In fact, there is 1 piece of choreography at the end that catches me off-guard, because it doesn't look good like the rest of them do.

[valiantman]

The problem with Alfred is that he was played by Marvel's Klaue/Klaw, and I kept expecting him to be a "new interpretation" of Alfred that was somehow sinister... because... Klaw.

There had to be a better Alfred actor available, because I don't think they got any extra box office sales just because Andy Serkis was in this movie.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:50 AM, Bosco685 said:

Oh, so I did provide counter-points that you then claimed I didn't. You just disagreed with them?

I see. And I should calm down? 

If you go back and read, I had already responded to your alleged "counter-points", but you didn't like that I deconstructed how they don't actually work as counter-points. That's when you kept making more stuff up. At no point did I say that my responses are final and that you cannot continue attempting to convince me. It's up to you to craft a compelling response. I am simply letting you know that your mis-characterizations of me are not true and are not advancing any discussions.

Edited March 7, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:51 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

If you go back and read, I had already responded to your alleged "counter-points", but you didn't like that I deconstructed how they don't actually work as counter-points. That's when you kept making more stuff up. At no point did I say that my responses are final and that you cannot continue attempting to convince me. It's up to you to craft a compelling response. I am simply letting you know that your mis-characterizations of me are not true and are not advancing any discussions.

Moving on to the movie now...

[fantastic_four]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:51 AM, valiantman said:

The problem with Alfred is that he was played by Marvel's Klaue/Klaw, and I kept expecting him to be a "new interpretation" of Alfred that was somehow sinister... because... Klaw.

There had to be a better Alfred actor available, because I don't think they got any extra box office sales just because Andy Serkis was in this movie.

All I see is Gollum every time I see Andy Serkis, but I liked him fine as Alfred.

 

[valiantman]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:58 AM, fantastic_four said:

On 3/7/2022 at 9:51 AM, valiantman said:

The problem with Alfred is that he was played by Marvel's Klaue/Klaw, and I kept expecting him to be a "new interpretation" of Alfred that was somehow sinister... because... Klaw.

There had to be a better Alfred actor available, because I don't think they got any extra box office sales just because Andy Serkis was in this movie.

All I see is Gollum every time I see Andy Serkis, but I liked him fine as Alfred.

 

He has to hop around on all fours for me to see Gollum.  Anytime he's standing, he's Klaw. 

He was (ultimately) a good Alfred, but I kept waiting for the sinister twist.  The actor's recognizable roles spoiled it a bit.

Edited March 7, 2022 by valiantman

[Red84]

The only thing I didn't like in the movie was the reveal that Catwoman was Falcone's daughter. I did a side eye and eyebrow raise at that one.

It was an unnecessary connection.

[D84]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:19 AM, Red84 said:

The only thing I didn't like in the movie was the reveal that Catwoman was Falcone's daughter. I did a side eye and eyebrow raise at that one.

It was an unnecessary connection.

A couple people in my theater laughed.

[valiantman]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:20 AM, D84 said:

On 3/7/2022 at 10:19 AM, Red84 said:

The only thing I didn't like in the movie was the reveal that Catwoman was Falcone's daughter. I did a side eye and eyebrow raise at that one.

It was an unnecessary connection.

A couple people in my theater laughed.

Her mother should have been named Martha Kyle.

[Red84]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:20 AM, D84 said:

A couple people in my theater laughed.

I instinctively turned to the person I was with and did a McKayla Maroney "not impressed" look.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I just didn't even care that she is his daughter. I was as confused to why they put that into the plot as Falcone himself was when she said, "hey Dad" before shooting at him.

[William-James88]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:25 AM, fantastic_four said:

What were those long, silver things on Batman's forearms?  You can see them in the pic below; there are five of them.  Arrows?  Multiple grapple gun shots?

Multiple grapple shots. I remember seeing him load his grapple hook with one of them.

On 3/7/2022 at 9:27 AM, fantastic_four said:

Is that the most frequent instrumental we were hearing?  I thought it was multiple remixes of Nirvana's "Something in the Way."  They played parts of that song at least twice with fragments of the lyrics spoken, and I thought I heard multiple very slow remixes of it along the way as well.

Weird, I thought it was those 4 notes which sounds like half of the Imperial March. That felt like the mot repeated music. 

On 3/7/2022 at 9:47 AM, Bosco685 said:

I can respect personal preferences. No debating there.

For others, they recognized the state of mind Bruce Wayne was in at this point in time and why he acted the way he did. It worked for those moviegoers. Otherwise, this film would never even come close to an A- CinemaScore.

You'll have to help me out Bosco, but I was under the impression that A- was the minimum for successful blockbuster. Not that it makes it bad either, but that's what the studio expects. Something higher than A- would have been a real crowd pleaser. For reference, Spider-man Far From Home had an A while No Way Home (which I feel is what people are comparing the performance to most) got an A+.

On 3/7/2022 at 10:17 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Why was he revving the engine just waiting for the bad guys to drive away?

I thought it stalled. He custom made the thing and this looks like it was its first trial run, kinda like that squirrel suit. It doesnt work as well as he planned it would.

On 3/7/2022 at 10:35 AM, Bosco685 said:

Back to the film: Did it need to be three hours?

No, but I didn't mind. It's like binging a 3 part BBC murder story all at once. If this movie was cut into a 3 part prestigue mini series I don't think anyone would have minded it being this long. 

My wish is to one day have a 12 part live action Batman miniseries of the long halloween. I think it will happen in my life time.

[William-James88]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:31 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I just didn't even care that she is his daughter. I was as confused to why they put that into the plot as Falcone himself was when she said, "hey Dad" before shooting at him.

ok this confused me too since I thought Falcone knew it was his daughter. He was giving her special attention early in the film, which Batman noticed right away. Selena also thought he knew (at least that's what I got from the film). So him being confused just means that he was being a creep with the daughter of the woman he killed, who he also saw grow up from when she was a little girl.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:36 AM, William-James88 said:

I thought it stalled. He custom made the thing and this looks like it was its first trial run, kinda like that squirrel suit. It doesnt work as well as he planned it would.

The squirrel suit seemed to work perfectly, he simply f^&*ed up by the chute hitting the bridge before he could make the bus.

I'm not sure about the stalling. 2nd time I saw it, seemed like he was betting them to run. Doesn't seem like a Batman thing to bust out tech prior to it being ready.

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:19 AM, Red84 said:

The only thing I didn't like in the movie was the reveal that Catwoman was Falcone's daughter. I did a side eye and eyebrow raise at that one.

It was an unnecessary connection.

It's from the source material with Batman: Dark Victory and The Long Halloween (two stories that influenced the movie).

Who Selina Kyle's Father Is In Batman Comics

Quote

In DC’s Rebirth era (which began in 2016), Brian Kyle maintains his status as Selina’s father. However, in 1999’s Batman: Dark Victory, Catwoman believes Carmine Falcone is her biological father. While she never obtains proof that she is Falcone’s daughter, Catwoman once again explores this connection in 2004’s Catwoman: When in Rome. She flies to Italy to investigate the mystery of her biological parents and it’s revealed that Louisa, Falcone’s wife, may have had a second daughter who was given up for adoption. It seemingly cinches the idea that Selina Kyle is, in fact, Falcone’s daughter, but the comic ends with no definitive proof regarding the information she uncovered.

 

Despite the changing identities of Catwoman’s father, the comics do establish Selina as having been raised primarily in orphanages and foster homes as a child. Considering The Batman draws some of its influence from 1996’s Batman: The Long Halloween, it’s no surprise the film leans heavily into Catwoman being Falcone’s daughter. After all, Batman: Dark Victory is a sequel comic to The Long Halloween, so it makes sense within the context of the story and Selina's continued arc.

 

[Red84]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:44 AM, Bosco685 said:

It's from the source material with Batman: Dark Victory and The Long Halloween (two stories that influenced the movie).

Who Selina Kyle's Father Is In Batman Comics

 

Was Martha Wayne's mental illness part of the source material too? That one struck me as a "woah" moment.

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:36 AM, William-James88 said:

You'll have to help me out Bosco, but I was under the impression that A- was the minimum for successful blockbuster. Not that it makes it bad either, but that's what the studio expects. Something higher than A- would have been a real crowd pleaser. For reference, Spider-man Far From Home had an A while No Way Home (which I feel is what people are comparing the performance to most) got an A+.

That's influenced by Marvel films unfortunately as so many of its films have received A- and above ratings.

Many hits will land a B+ rating and still be successful. Even with IT: Chapter One this landed at B+ and did $701M on a $35M budget.

[Bosco685]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:48 AM, Red84 said:

Was Martha Wayne's mental illness part of the source material too? That one struck me as a "woah" moment.

Modern interpretations we find out she is Martha Arkham from one of the founding families of Gotham. They have a history of mental illness.

Martha Arkham: Comic History & Arkham Asylum Connection Explained

Quote

In Batman: Earth One, Thomas Wayne was running for mayor while his wife Martha ran his campaign. While a victory was in sight, both Waynes were murdered by a mugger during an outing with their son Bruce. However, the rest of the series would continue to reveal more of Martha's history as an Arkham, a new change to the Wayne Family history due to the series taking place in an alternate timeline. According to Batman: Earth One, the Waynes paid for Gotham and the Arkhams built it, making them the two most powerful and influential founding families in Gotham. However, the Arkhams became a very troubled family following their construction of Gotham, and it was widely believed that the whole family's bloodline was infected with insanity. Bruce recalled his mother telling Bruce to never go into the abandoned Arkham Manor (the house where she grew up) due to the dark past she experienced within its walls.

 

Case in point, it was revealed that Martha's mother killed her father before committing suicide. This traumatic experience led to Martha being in and out of mental hospitals during her life. The same holds true for the version of Martha seen in The Batman, despite her history of mental illness not being publically known which the journalist was threatening to expose (which The Batman's Riddler actually did years later).

 

[D84]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:59 AM, Bosco685 said:

Modern interpretations we find out she is Martha Arkham from one of the founding families of Gotham. They have a history of mental illness.

Martha Arkham: Comic History & Arkham Asylum Connection Explained

 

I thought that stupid  idea came from Geoff Johns.