Is Giant-Size X-Men worth it? 3 3

[bronze johnny]

On 4/3/2022 at 1:34 PM, shadroch said:

I'm not sure what a personal reference has to do with the fact the book came out in the early spring and not the summer. Maybe you first read it in the summer but it wasn't a summer time release. 

I’m aware of it. I sure you’re familiar with “poetic license.” Flows and sounds better in my post than “Spring of…” Summer was the time things happened for me as a kid with comics.  Really, are you going to make an issue of this? Is this a material issue to the question presented? 

Edited April 3, 2022 by bronze johnny

[shadroch]

You refer to the "summer of 75" three times in your post, so I imagine you feel it must have some importance.  I don't see why "the spring of 75" wouldn't have the same cache, as well as actually being accurate, but continue using your poetic license.

[bronze johnny]

On 4/3/2022 at 1:50 PM, shadroch said:

You refer to the "summer of 75" three times in your post, so I imagine you feel it must have some importance.  I don't see why "the spring of 75" wouldn't have the same cache, as well as actually being accurate, but continue using your poetic license.

“Summer of ‘75” was a great one for me. Should we debate the weather now?

Edited April 3, 2022 by bronze johnny

[Sweet Lou 14]

This is an excellent thread -- thanks for the very thoughtful discussion.

Generally speaking, I'm a run collector whose goal is to own one (and only one) copy of each book in the runs I collect.  When I upgrade, I immediately sell off my undercopy to help fund future upgrades.  But there are a couple of cases where I have held onto my undercopies as a longer-term investment.  I'm currently holding 9.4 and 9.6 copies of Hulk 181, a 9.4 of Silver Surfer 1, and a 9.4 of X-Men 94.  I figure that these books will inevitably pop when we get definitive word of rebooted MCU versions of the X-Men, Wolverine, and the Surfer.

So I guess all of that is to say that I like the advice I'm reading here -- and in the case of X-Men 94, I am saying "from your keyboards to God's ears" because my confidence in that book does sometimes waver.  I've had some very knowledgeable people say that the book will always be a laggard because people "hate" the cover, and I can see where that argument comes from.  GSX 1 has a much, much better cover and when you get a high grade copy that's really nice and white, it has enormous eye appeal.

And now, I would like to toss a complete curveball into the mix.  We say over and over that Hulk 181 is the top book of the Bronze Age, but as far as I can tell Marvel Spotlight 5 has completely surpassed it.  I don't believe anyone has mentioned MS 5 in this thread, and I don't want to derail the thread, but as someone with a 9.4 who would like to own a 9.6, but experiences dizziness and mild nausea when I look at the current prices, the real question I'm asking is "Is Marvel Spotlight 5 worth it?"  So far my answer has been no, and I've been thinking hard about it for nearly two years.  I am very curious to hear what others think.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sweet Lou 14

[bronze johnny]

On 4/3/2022 at 3:31 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

This is an excellent thread -- thanks for the very thoughtful discussion.

Generally speaking, I'm a run collector whose goal is to own one (and only one) copy of each book in the runs I collect.  When I upgrade, I immediately sell off my undercopy to help fund future upgrades.  But there are a couple of cases where I have held onto my undercopies as a longer-term investment.  I'm currently holding 9.4 and 9.6 copies of Hulk 181, a 9.4 of Silver Surfer 1, and a 9.4 of X-Men 94.  I figure that these books will inevitably pop when we get definitive word of rebooted MCU versions of the X-Men, Wolverine, and the Surfer.

So I guess all of that is to say that I like the advice I'm reading here -- and in the case of X-Men 94, I am saying "from your keyboards to God's ears" because my confidence in that book does sometimes waver.  I've had some very knowledgeable people say that the book will always be a laggard because people "hate" the cover, and I can see where that argument comes from.  GSX 1 has a much, much better cover and when you get a high grade copy that's really nice and white, it has enormous eye appeal.

And now, I would like to toss a complete curveball into the mix.  We say over and over that Hulk 181 is the top book of the Bronze Age, but as far as I can tell Marvel Spotlight 5 has completely surpassed it.  I don't believe anyone has mentioned MS 5 in this thread, and I don't want to derail the thread, but as someone with a 9.4 who would like to own a 9.6, but experiences dizziness and mild nausea when I look at the current prices, the real question I'm asking is "Is Marvel Spotlight 5 worth it?"  So far my answer has been no, and I've been thinking hard about it for nearly two years.  I am very curious to hear what others think.

Thanks Lou and I don’t think your excellent question derails this thread. I’m cautious about prices and speculation and Marvel Spotlight 5 is currently one of those books driven by this. Johnny Blaze is a favorite of mine and while this book is his first appearance as the Ghost Rider who rides a supercool motorcycle instead of the horses that go back to the early days of Ayers and Frazetta, MS 5 is still a revamped modern rendition of the original western rider. If you’re asking specifically about pricing then I will say that it’s anyone’s guess where books like MS 5 will go (I personally benefit with it going up and up) but in terms of historical significance, Ghost Rider as a character has never reached the heights that Wolverine and the X-Men have experienced since Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 hit the newsstands (my “Summer of 75” regarding the latter of the two books!). The history of these books define their place but there are plenty of people coming in and out of this hobby who haven’t got a clue about the history or place these characters have had in Marvel Comics. The auction format also leaves a number of unanswered questions for me personally especially when greater transparency is required and more people need to have a better understanding of what it means for an auction house itself to participate in the auction and the role a seller can have in bidding up their own book and ending up in some cases, buying their own book by simply paying the auction house fee. Defining true value in this hobby is difficult to pin down- just look at the shenanigans on ebay like this:

This being said, we have the history of this hobby and these boards have been helpful at times in educating newer people about the books and eras they were published in. It’s important that we the collectors continue to discuss, debate, and when possible, more accurately define these books when necessary. Also significant that we avoid the “market decides everything” view since this isn’t a market that’s decided by an “invisible hand” or pure “supply and demand” laws given the recent policies practiced by the Federal Government to make currency easily available at no interest on the part of the banks. Lots of currency floating around making it easier for a number of people to spend whatever they want on books that aren’t relatively (emphasis on relative scarcity) scarce (see FF 48). We are now seeing changes with rising interest rates and a shift on making currency easily available on the part of the Fed to deal with rising inflation- another factor that also makes it difficult to determine accurate values for these books. 

To answer your question about whether MS 5 is worth it, my best answer is that it’s an important Marvel Comics Bronze Age key (cool Picture Frame too!) but not in the same league as Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 given their historical impact. The latter two keys have a history that is unrivaled by any book published in the Bronze Age or after. Special mention to X-Men 94 since this book is the third jewel in Marvel’s Bronze Age Triple Crown. X-Men 94 proved that Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 weren’t One Hit Wonders- and the 1970s was the era of One Hit Wonders!

[WolverineX]

On 4/3/2022 at 3:31 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

This is an excellent thread -- thanks for the very thoughtful discussion.

Generally speaking, I'm a run collector whose goal is to own one (and only one) copy of each book in the runs I collect.  When I upgrade, I immediately sell off my undercopy to help fund future upgrades.  But there are a couple of cases where I have held onto my undercopies as a longer-term investment.  I'm currently holding 9.4 and 9.6 copies of Hulk 181, a 9.4 of Silver Surfer 1, and a 9.4 of X-Men 94.  I figure that these books will inevitably pop when we get definitive word of rebooted MCU versions of the X-Men, Wolverine, and the Surfer.

So I guess all of that is to say that I like the advice I'm reading here -- and in the case of X-Men 94, I am saying "from your keyboards to God's ears" because my confidence in that book does sometimes waver.  I've had some very knowledgeable people say that the book will always be a laggard because people "hate" the cover, and I can see where that argument comes from.  GSX 1 has a much, much better cover and when you get a high grade copy that's really nice and white, it has enormous eye appeal.

 

I would not worry.  Humans have an insatiable void inside of them that they seek to satisfy with stuff like money, drugs, material things, etc.  However, the void can never be filled.

If someone buys an expensive Hulk 181 and GSX1, they will eventually crave that dopamine hit and come looking for that X-men 94 to complete their trilogy.   

Hulk 181 may pave the way in pricing, but a rising tide raises all boats, and the GSX-1 and X-94 will follow.  

[Mr.Fantastic]

On 4/3/2022 at 4:46 PM, bronze johnny said:

Thanks Lou and I don’t think your excellent question derails this thread. I’m cautious about prices and speculation and Marvel Spotlight 5 is currently one of those books driven by this. Johnny Blaze is a favorite of mine and while this book is his first appearance as the Ghost Rider who rides a supercool motorcycle instead of the horses that go back to the early days of Ayers and Frazetta, MS 5 is still a revamped modern rendition of the original western rider. If you’re asking specifically about pricing then I will say that it’s anyone’s guess where books like MS 5 will go (I personally benefit with it going up and up) but in terms of historical significance, Ghost Rider as a character has never reached the heights that Wolverine and the X-Men have experienced since Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 hit the newsstands (my “Summer of 75” regarding the latter of the two books!). The history of these books define their place but there are plenty of people coming in and out of this hobby who haven’t got a clue about the history or place these characters have had in Marvel Comics. The auction format also leaves a number of unanswered questions for me personally especially when greater transparency is required and more people need to have a better understanding of what it means for an auction house itself to participate in the auction and the role a seller can have in bidding up their own book and ending up in some cases, buying their own book by simply paying the auction house fee. Defining true value in this hobby is difficult to pin down- just look at the shenanigans on ebay like this:

This being said, we have the history of this hobby and these boards have been helpful at times in educating newer people about the books and eras they were published in. It’s important that we the collectors continue to discuss, debate, and when possible, more accurately define these books when necessary. Also significant that we avoid the “market decides everything” view since this isn’t a market that’s decided by an “invisible hand” or pure “supply and demand” laws given the recent policies practiced by the Federal Government to make currency easily available at no interest on the part of the banks. Lots of currency floating around making it easier for a number of people to spend whatever they want on books that aren’t relatively (emphasis on relative scarcity) scarce (see FF 48). We are now seeing changes with rising interest rates and a shift on making currency easily available on the part of the Fed to deal with rising inflation- another factor that also makes it difficult to determine accurate values for these books. 

To answer your question about whether MS 5 is worth it, my best answer is that it’s an important Marvel Comics Bronze Age key (cool Picture Frame too!) but not in the same league as Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 given their historical impact. The latter two keys have a history that is unrivaled by any book published in the Bronze Age or after. Special mention to X-Men 94 since this book is the third jewel in Marvel’s Bronze Age Triple Crown. X-Men 94 proved that Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 weren’t One Hit Wonders- and the 1970s was the era of One Hit Wonders!

I agree IH 181 and GSX-Men 1 are the important, historical books to have from the age.  While MS 5 has had a meteoric rise the last few years I think at least some of that is due to the black cover being so difficult in high grade, not because the character associated with the book was more popular than Hulk or X-men. 

[drbanner]

On 4/4/2022 at 9:53 AM, Mr.Fantastic said:

I agree IH 181 and GSX-Men 1 are the important, historical books to have from the age.  While MS 5 has had a meteoric rise the last few years I think at least some of that is due to the black cover being so difficult in high grade, not because the character associated with the book was more popular than Hulk or X-men. 

Yep, MS 5 is much tougher in HG...40 in 9.6 and only 4 in 9.8 vs. 340 in 9.6 and 132 in 9.8 for Hulk 181 and 388 in 9.6 and 208 in 9.8 for Giant-Size X-men 1. I think GS X-men 1 is a great book, there are just a lot of HG copies floating around so it's not going to shoot up in HG like the MS 5. When you look at what the 1st appearance of more minor X-men characters go for (Sabretooth, Gambit, etc.,.) it's kind of a bargain if you ask me.

 

[PDGray]

If I were in your position, I would go with the 181.  I have collected since the 1970s and owned several copies.  The book might have pauses but remains the most important key issue from the 70s.  GSX is second and one could argue over 3rd being the Spotlight or any number of other books.  However, I think the turning point into the "Bronze Age" is the GL 76.  It really redefined a number of things for that era.

But ultimately, it's your money, so you decide where you want to put it.  

 

PDG

[Terry JSA]

Hulk #181 would be my choice. It’s the first full appearance of Wolverine, and he’s one of the most popular Marvel characters.

I see it as an “investment” since it’s constantly going up in value and it’s also one of the books from the BA people constantly ask about.

[lou_fine]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:18 PM, bronze johnny said:

“Summer of ‘75” was a great one for me. Should we debate the weather now?

I thought it was supposed to be the "Summer of 72" that was the turning point in every boy's life as he comes of age and grows into a young man.  

Edited April 7, 2022 by lou_fine

[Funnybooks]

On 4/7/2022 at 2:33 AM, lou_fine said:

I thought it was supposed to be the "Summer of 72" that was the turning point in every boy's life as he comes of age and grows into a young man.  

I thought it was the Summer of 69ing?

[Pantodude]

MS5 in 9.8 was already a $48500 book in 2016. It's always been hot.  MS5 in 9.8/9.6/9.5 sell infrequently, so it only seems like it had a meteoric rise.  

[Off Panel]

In defense of GS X-men 1, there's a whole lot going on in that book.

Yes, the CGC label correctly notes that it's the 1st appearance of Storm, Nightcrawler, and Colossus (and of Thunderbird, who shuffled off this mortal coil two issues later.) And of course, it's the second full appearance of Wolverine, which would be enough to elevate this book all by itself.

But there are also a couple of things the label neglects to mention:

1. It's also the first appearance of Krakoa, who, as those who still read X-men know, has become kind of a big deal over the past few years. 
2. It also features the first appearance of Illyana Rasputin. 

Like many here, I see Hulk 181 as the more important book, but GS X-Men is still number two in the Marvel Bronze Age Trinity: Hulk 181, Giant-Size X-men 1, and Amazing Spider-man 129.