Is Spawn just destine to be mediocre collector forever? 4 4

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:40 PM, Ryan. said:

I don't think you've been paying attention to the GA market the last decade. 

 

Sure! Right. Like all retirees aren't in prime position to bid against each other in a war to jack up prices on any GA stuff.

Meanwhile my kids couldn't give a rat's @$$ about anything outside of fortnite and Marvel movies. 

I wonder what's going to happen to all of that GA and SA stuff when all of these retired boomers kick the can all at the same time and their annoyed widows have to find some way to sell 120 long boxes of hoarded comic books.

[kimik]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:48 AM, D2 said:

 

Sure! Right. Like all retirees aren't in prime position to bid against each other in a war to jack up prices on any GA stuff.

Meanwhile my kids couldn't give a rat's @$$ about anything outside of fortnite and Marvel movies. 

I wonder what's going to happen to all of that GA and SA stuff when all of these retired boomers kick the can all at the same time and their annoyed widows have to find some way to sell 120 long boxes of hoarded comic books.

As long as they hoarded the right stuff, it will be easy to move. The past couple of years have seen an influx of new collectors chasing older books. Those VG-to-FN/VF books that used to go unsold are now being readily snapped up, and it is not boomers buying them as they cannot afford the books now.

 

[Ryan.]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:48 PM, D2 said:

 

I wonder what's going to happen to all of that GA and SA stuff when all of these retired boomers kick the can all at the same time and their annoyed widows have to find some way to sell 120 long boxes of hoarded comic books.

They'll continue selling them to the people that are actually buying them today. It's not a bunch of 70 year olds on fixed incomes selling to each other. 

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:59 PM, kimik said:

As long as they hoarded the right stuff, it will be easy to move. The past couple of years have seen an influx of new collectors chasing older books. Those VG-to-FN/VF books that used to go unsold are now being readily snapped up, and it is not boomers buying them as they cannot afford the books now.

 

 

On 3/28/2022 at 1:02 PM, Ryan. said:

They'll continue selling them to the people that are actually buying them today. It's not a bunch of 70 year olds on fixed incomes selling to each other. 

 

Let's hope you're both right

[darkstar]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:48 AM, D2 said:

 

Sure! Right. Like all retirees aren't in prime position to bid against each other in a war to jack up prices on any GA stuff.

Meanwhile my kids couldn't give a rat's @$$ about anything outside of fortnite and Marvel movies. 

I wonder what's going to happen to all of that GA and SA stuff when all of these retired boomers kick the can all at the same time and their annoyed widows have to find some way to sell 120 long boxes of hoarded comic books.

By continuing to insist that Golden Age prices are going to collapse once the people who grew up with it are gone suggests your understanding of our hobby is lacking and delegitimizes the medium's place and significance in American history and art. 

[MetalPSI]

The logic isn't entirely flawed 

There are a lot ie most, who don't care

 

[kimik]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:50 AM, D2 said:

 

 

Let's hope you're both right

The one big effect of certified grading is it has turned coins/comics/cards/video games/etc. into commodities that can be bought and sold more readily like other assets. Comics are a legitimate investment collectible now as a result. Way back when CGC started it was not. I started selling books at local shows in university for party money in 1998, and back then the collector base was so small it was the just the same usual suspects buying for years. Now, even at the one day shows there are all sorts of new collectors filling older runs, buying keys/hot covers to press and slab, and locking in CGC 9.8 newer keys. 

While single issue readership numbers are not high relative to times in the past, you need to also look at GNs/TPBs/collected editions. That is where the growth is now as readers prefer to consume entire story arcs/mini-series at once, just like they consume streaming content.

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:58 PM, darkstar said:

By continuing to insist that Golden Age prices are going to collapse once the people who grew up with it are gone suggests your understanding of our hobby is lacking and delegitimizes the medium's place and significance in American history and art. 

 

But it does though. It is lacking.

What I always find so interesting when I breach these subjects is this assumption that I am against comic collectors. I am a comic collector. In fact, I'm just being a devil's advocate, specifically because I am a comic collector, actively spending my available finances in support of our hobby.
I am making opinions based on my observations outside of my own interests.

One of my degrees is also in Art History. I can tell you that, although comic books and their impact is important to human culture and the art movement as a whole, it's not the same as fine art, for many reasons, 1 being the fact that it's niche. It also doesn't hold the same universal respect. There are obvious exceptions to this rule where certain pieces will transcend this barrier. But much like most fine art, there is an inevitable ceiling.

The fact that even the most obscure items haven't reached a ceiling, tells me that the current target audience is skewed. Skewed means erratic, ultimately unpredictable. It's just observation.

 

On 3/28/2022 at 2:31 PM, kimik said:

The one big effect of certified grading is it has turned coins/comics/cards/video games/etc. into commodities that can be bought and sold more readily like other assets. Comics are a legitimate investment collectible now as a result. Way back when CGC started it was not. I started selling books at local shows in university for party money in 1998, and back then the collector base was so small it was the just the same usual suspects buying for years. Now, even at the one day shows there are all sorts of new collectors filling older runs, buying keys/hot covers to press and slab, and locking in CGC 9.8 newer keys. 

While single issue readership numbers are not high relative to times in the past, you need to also look at GNs/TPBs/collected editions. That is where the growth is now as readers prefer to consume entire story arcs/mini-series at once, just like they consume streaming content.

 

Sure, but much like you said, couldn't it be viewed that relative to times in the past, collecting comic as a commodity has a finite shelf life. Collecting something for the sake of collecting them has weight for a moment, sure, but I argue it was the reading of comic books in specific which was what gave them their longevity. That's what made comics special, in my eyes, vs, baseball cards for instance.

[kimik]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:36 PM, D2 said:

Sure, but much like you said, couldn't it be viewed that relative to times in the past, collecting comic as a commodity has a finite shelf life. Collecting something for the sake of collecting them has weight for a moment, sure, but I argue it was the reading of comic books in specific which was what gave them their longevity. That's what made comics special, in my eyes, vs, baseball cards for instance.

In the past reading did, but now it is video games/movies/streaming shows that give characters longevity. Comics are a cheap way to capture IP via copyright that can generate better economic returns through other platforms. The impact of those platforms on comics is reflected in the price gains due to movies and now streaming. A lot of the new entrants are also chasing slabbed comics/runs, so reading is not as big of a concern. 

[darkstar]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:36 PM, D2 said:

 

One of my degrees is also in Art History. I can tell you that, although comic books and their impact is important to human culture and the art movement as a whole, it's not the same as fine art, for many reasons, 1 being the fact that it's niche.

 

 

A ton of fine art is niche. 

On 3/28/2022 at 2:36 PM, D2 said:

It also doesn't hold the same universal respect.

It doesn't hold the same universal respect to whom? And when?  

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:43 PM, kimik said:

In the past reading did, but now it is video games/movies/streaming shows that give characters longevity. Comics are a cheap way to capture IP via copyright that can generate better economic returns through other platforms. The impact of those platforms on comics is reflected in the price gains due to movies and now streaming. A lot of the new entrants are also chasing slabbed comics/runs, so reading is not as big of a concern. 

Character IPs longevity, absolutely. But there's little relation to a movie and comic book. Marvel would like to believe that once people watched Avengers: Endgame, people in the millions are bombarding their LCS for the Avengers comic book. There is a reason why Civil War 2 comics were released in tandem with Captain America 3: Civil War, but in the same breath, Disney has mentioned outsourcing their comics division to competitors.

So, I really have a hard time believing that comic books are a lifeline to the IP properties anymore. There used to be a lot of reused content for cartoons and tv shows, but now movies and cartoons have little resemblance to their comic counterparts.

I'm not saying comics will ever go away, and I love comics, I should reiterate that. I just don't think it's as essential as it once was or what people want them to be, on the most popular message forum of the industry.

 

On 3/28/2022 at 4:14 PM, darkstar said:

A ton of fine art is niche. 

It doesn't hold the same universal respect to whom? And when?  

fine art is not niche

there is a reason why prints and paintings are sold at homesense and winners for $100 a pop for you to hang near your toilet.

[kimik]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:37 PM, D2 said:

Character IPs longevity, absolutely. But there's little relation to a movie and comic book. Marvel would like to believe that once people watched Avengers: Endgame, people in the millions are bombarding their LCS for the Avengers comic book. There is a reason why Civil War 2 comics were released in tandem with Captain America 3: Civil War, but in the same breath, Disney has mentioned outsourcing their comics division to competitors.

So, I really have a hard time believing that comic books are a lifeline to the IP properties anymore. There used to be a lot of reused content for cartoons and tv shows, but now movies and cartoons have little resemblance to their comic counterparts.

I'm not saying comics will ever go away, and I love comics, I should reiterate that. I just don't think it's as essential as it once was or what people want them to be, on the most popular message forum of the industry.

The live-action movie/TV characters will rarely be close to their movie counterparts since what works in comics does not necessarily translate to the silver screen.

However, look at the IP grab by studios for Image/other independent properties, and/or concepts being tested in comics while simultaneously being optioned (e.g. recently Shadecraft). It is much cheaper to publish a mini-series comic/regular series comic/youth book/novel to test a concept and establish IP. Look at what Marvel/Lucasfilm is doing with the High Republic as an example. Start cheap with novels/comics/youth books then look at animated/live streaming shows and video games. The last step will be the movies. However, all of the IP will be in place and have an audience thanks to the printed platforms.

 

[xela_v]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:48 AM, D2 said:

 

Sure! Right. Like all retirees aren't in prime position to bid against each other in a war to jack up prices on any GA stuff.

Meanwhile my kids couldn't give a rat's @$$ about anything outside of fortnite and Marvel movies. 

I wonder what's going to happen to all of that GA and SA stuff when all of these retired boomers kick the can all at the same time and their annoyed widows have to find some way to sell 120 long boxes of hoarded comic books.

Cheap Baker? I'm totally in

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:50 PM, kimik said:

The live-action movie/TV characters will rarely be close to their movie counterparts since what works in comics does not necessarily translate to the silver screen.

However, look at the IP grab by studios for Image/other independent properties, and/or concepts being tested in comics while simultaneously being optioned (e.g. recently Shadecraft). It is much cheaper to publish a mini-series comic/regular series comic/youth book/novel to test a concept and establish IP. Look at what Marvel/Lucasfilm is doing with the High Republic as an example. Start cheap with novels/comics/youth books then look at animated/live streaming shows and video games. The last step will be the movies. However, all of the IP will be in place and have an audience thanks to the printed platforms.

 

I do agree with you.

I think comics and the medium are the most creative and effective way to deliver a good idea.

The Matrix (the original, not the 3 terrible sequels) was only made possible because after several rejections, the Wachowskis commissioned their story into a comic book series, in order to pitch and ultimately sell to producers.

Genius.

[darkstar]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:37 PM, D2 said:

fine art is not niche

there is a reason why prints and paintings are sold at homesense and winners for $100 a pop for you to hang near your toilet.

And the point of this statement is what? There is plenty of fine art that hasn't been reproduced ad nauseam for the masses. Are you sure you're an art history major?  

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 6:53 PM, darkstar said:

And the point of this statement is what? There is plenty of fine art that hasn't been reproduced ad nauseam for the masses. Are you sure you're an art history major?  

Lol I can tell you are angry. You should learn not to take things so personally. This is the internet after all. I can’t imagine you’d be happy if I insulted you back. 

[MetalPSI]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:13 PM, D2 said:

Lol I can tell you are angry. You should learn not to take things so personally. This is the internet after all. I can’t imagine you’d be happy if I insulted you back. 

Meh, so long as its not considered a pump and dump, youre fine

 

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:17 PM, The Meta said:

Meh, so long as its not considered a pump and dump, youre fine

 

Yes that’s true. There are definitely certain rules people can use to skirt the line 

[D2]

On 3/28/2022 at 6:53 PM, darkstar said:

And the point of this statement is what? There is plenty of fine art that hasn't been reproduced ad nauseam for the masses. Are you sure you're an art history major?  

And I will answer your insult, just for clarification. 
 

Where it seems to me that you believe fine art to be Van Gogh, or Monet… a painting of insane value. I am trying to outline how fine art is littered throughout homes, which isn’t niche at all. To the point where art is literally in peoples’ bathrooms. 
 

And I would also like to add, that people hang Van Gogh and Monet paintings in the bathrooms to boot! (Albeit prints of their paintings)
 

But rather than see a different perspective, you chose to be a statistic, where you got angry when someone didn’t agree with your point of view, to which you decided to attempt at diminishing others. 
 

It’s clear, standard internet fodder, I shouldn’t have even bothered with you. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by D2

[darkstar]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:13 PM, D2 said:

Lol I can tell you are angry. You should learn not to take things so personally. This is the internet after all. I can’t imagine you’d be happy if I insulted you back. 

I'm not angry about anything, why does everyone suggest this when I attempt to have a discussion on this forum? When you throw your credentials out there to give your position weight maybe support your argument instead of being dismissive. Art history major doesn't know how to define or recognize fine art and for some reason suggests that art needs to be universally respected. What? How many examples throughout history of artists and their work(s) do you need who weren't universally respected at the time their work was created or even during their actual lifetime?