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[Beige]

Seller says 9.0

Buyer thinks 7.0

Buyer pays a 9.0 price

Things go south.

Who could foresee such an outcome....

 

If you knew it was a 7.0, why pay a 9.0 price?

Buyer beware and all that.

 

Walk away and learn from this.

[crassus]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:31 PM, Roger66 said:

Yes - I believe I do have some degree of obligation (more moral and ethical here btw) to David but not even close to what he has expressed I owe him to make him whole.  I look at the Boards and the small pool of  solid collectors I've dealt with here over time as friends if not good acquaintances.  I am disheartened by all of this (and of course not as upset as David) but I do believe he may bear some degree of responsibility here so far as it appears 2 books were damaged once they left his hands and other factors I have expressed.  

Diamonddave has suggested that you had made some promises, given some assurances about the CV 4, that if it didn't grade out as expected you would make it right or fix it. Are you saying that he is mistaken about that?

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:38 PM, JollyComics said:

It sounds fair and I had to point at Metro for a bad pressing service. @Diamonddave  Go talk with Metro about it.  They may make it right too.

Very insightful and helpful, thank you

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:44 PM, Beige said:

Seller says 9.0

Buyer thinks 7.0

Buyer pays a 9.0 price

Things go south.

Who could foresee such an outcome....

 

If you knew it was a 7.0, why pay a 9.0 price?

Buyer beware and all that.

 

Walk away and learn from this.

And just not hold the other party to account and at their word as a member of this community? No thanks

Edited April 9, 2022 by Diamonddave

[vaillant]

On 4/10/2022 at 12:08 AM, wombat said:

You lose me right here. You should have initiated a return right here. At the very least you should have agreed up front what the compensation would be for a lower grade. 

Precisely what I think.

First, I trust my own eyes before any possible professional evaluation, as more or less I know how a VFNM should present compared to a FN.

And in my opinion a grade isn’t raised “magically” by pressing. Pressing addresses certain types of defects, especially non-color-breaking creases, but not much more.

But above all: even if you do not feel confident in grading you had the book in hand: why, if you felt insecure, not ask for a substantial discount?

This kind of afterthoughts and considerations have always a bitter taste, it’s a lot better to express perplexities before and above all see if in the end we are satisfied or not by the item itself in hand at the asking price. I am sad to hear of such things and I would take this as an opportunity to trust one’s eyes before any possible “stated” grading, given you have an item in hand, that is.

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:45 PM, crassus said:

Diamonddave has suggested that you had made some promises, given some assurances about the CV 4, that if it didn't grade out as expected you would make it right or fix it. Are you saying that he is mistaken about that?

I did not suggest, texts document his absolute confidence in the estimated grades.

[Joshua33]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:45 PM, crassus said:

Diamonddave has suggested that you had made some promises, given some assurances about the CV 4, that if it didn't grade out as expected you would make it right or fix it. Are you saying that he is mistaken about that?

It looks like @Roger66 has acknowledged he feels somewhat morally responsible for the way things are, and wants to make it right. 

It additionally appears Roger thinks the ask ($2,800) given where things are currently, is too high. 

Realistically, and unfortunately, Roger could tell Dave to jam it, based on the absence of clarification. Roger, to me is demonstrating desire to make it right. 

Again, @Diamonddave could relay information here... is there anything else you would accept (aside form $2,800) to resolve this? 

That seems like a good starting point...

[JollyComics]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:48 PM, Diamonddave said:

And just not hold the other party to account? No thanks

Ok, you took the risk.   I took my risk with Metro before. It didn't work for me but I made some profits off few Metro books to make the even break so I stay away from them.

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:52 PM, Joshua33 said:

It looks like @Roger66 has acknowledged he feels somewhat morally responsible for the way things are, and wants to make it right. 

It additionally appears Roger thinks the ask ($2,800) given where things are currently, is too high. 

Realistically, and unfortunately, Roger could tell Dave to jam it, based on the absence of clarification. Roger, to me is demonstrating desire to make it right. 

Again, @Diamonddave could relay information here... is there anything else you would accept (aside form $2,800) to resolve this? 

That seems like a good starting point...

I've stated before, I had presented Roger with options for resolution. Nothing has come to fruition. 

[KCOComics]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:54 PM, Diamonddave said:

I've stated before, I had presented Roger with options for resolution. Nothing has come to fruition. 

What are those options? 

 

[speedcake]

... 

Edited April 9, 2022 by speedcake

[Joshua33]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:54 PM, Diamonddave said:

I've stated before, I had presented Roger with options for resolution. Nothing has come to fruition. 

Right, but now you've taken that privacy, public. If you don't mind me asking... what options for resolution have been offered, so we can all understand?

[BanjerD]

Just for clarification.  Was this transaction begun on these chat boards?

[speedcake]

I went back and re-read the provided chat/email history. I'm still confused on the timeline. Did you express to Roger your concerns over the grade of the CV after you had received it from him and looked it with your own eyes?

From what you posted, it looks like you expressed these concerns and discussed possible restitution before any books were shipped, and then the next update to Roger is that it came back a 6.0

you state later in the thread that you thought it was at best a 7.0 before you submitted it for pressing/grading.  Did you contact Roger about any misgivings AFTER you had the book in hand and saw for yourself it wasn't better than a FN/VF, but before you actually sent it in to be pressed and graded?

 

[Bird]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:50 PM, Diamonddave said:

I did not suggest, texts document his absolute confidence in the estimated grades.

I thought he sidestepped the issue in the texts, stating would you contact him if it came back higher? It did not seem that he agreed (I may have overlooked it) explicitly to anything.

It is a pickle. I myself never subscribe to the "cgc grade does not = raw grade so give me a refund" argument, the submitter takes responsibility somewhere as well and I believe it is before books are subbed to a third party. I'll say again, you should resolve disputes before selling...again, not a legal guy but did you relinquish some rights by selling? Good you brought it here, but always be explicit. He said he would make it right and you said that is good enough for you, so now what?

both parties agree to something being "owed"? $2800 was requested and rebuffed. I don't do legalities, but there are different forms of arbitration, correct? Is it $2800 or nothing, or is an intervening amount in play?

Edited April 9, 2022 by Bird

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:02 PM, BanjerD said:

Just for clarification.  Was this transaction begun on these chat boards?

If memory serves, yes, he contacted me about the Zip 31 that I had posted here in a sales thread. 

[Bird]

for lists, I think rules apply no matter where transaction takes place if it is two boardies

the boards protect us...even on ebay, IG etc if both buyer and seller are members it can be disputed here

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:09 PM, Bird said:

I thought he sidestepped the issue in the texts, stating would you contact him if it came back higher? It did not seem that he agreed (I may have overlooked it) explicitly to anything.

It is a pickle. I myself never subscribe to the "cgc grade does not = raw grade" argument, the submitter takes responsibility somewhere as well and I believe it is before books are subbed to a third party. I'll say again, you should resolve disputes before selling...again, not a legal guy but did you relinquish some rights by selling? Good you brought it here, but always be explicit. He said he would make it right and you said that is good enough for you, so now what?

both parties agree to something being "owed"? $2800 was requested and rebuffed. I don't do legalities, but there are different forms of arbitration, correct? Is it $2800 or nothing, or is an intervening amount in play?

The text from Monday Feb 22, please read. How would you interpet that?

[crassus]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:50 PM, Diamonddave said:

On 4/9/2022 at 6:45 PM, crassus said:

Diamonddave has suggested that you had made some promises, given some assurances about the CV 4, that if it didn't grade out as expected you would make it right or fix it. Are you saying that he is mistaken about that?

I did not suggest, texts document his absolute confidence in the estimated grades.

I understand, but I am concerned here with his (Roger66s) understanding of what he did, or did not communicate. In some sense you were both gambling, he was gambling on his confidence that it would grade out a 9, and you were gambling that even if it might be a 7.0 raw that it could still come back a 9.0 or better, that at least is my sense of it. My point is that even if you were both taking risks, it does not mitigate the force of a promise made, as part of that transaction. What matters here is what each party understood they had committed themselves to. 

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:09 PM, Bird said:

I thought he sidestepped the issue in the texts, stating would you contact him if it came back higher? It did not seem that he agreed (I may have overlooked it) explicitly to anything.

It is a pickle. I myself never subscribe to the "cgc grade does not = raw grade" argument, the submitter takes responsibility somewhere as well and I believe it is before books are subbed to a third party. I'll say again, you should resolve disputes before selling...again, not a legal guy but did you relinquish some rights by selling? Good you brought it here, but always be explicit. He said he would make it right and you said that is good enough for you, so now what?

both parties agree to something being "owed"? $2800 was requested and rebuffed. I don't do legalities, but there are different forms of arbitration, correct? Is it $2800 or nothing, or is an intervening amount in play?

Again, I've presented him with several options on the phone and via text. Nothing has happened.