Sal Buscema is a God 1 1

[JadeGiant]

On 4/26/2022 at 12:30 PM, zhamlau said:

Ha....I don't check in on the boards for a bit and a little anarchy ensues.

Well, it appears ARTSOC has failed in our noble effort to keep "The Average" in his place. Even party loyalists are coming out admitting his importance and value to the industry and among his peers...I never thought I would see the day...

So, all cards on the table I guess. I like Sal (obviously) both as an artist but also as a historically significant comic book artist. My thoughts on this are pretty clear.

  1. 7th all time on the pages pencilled list. That alone makes you one of the greats. You don't get that much work if you aren't that skilled. Inkers can something slide by with lesser efforts and still get paid, pencillers not so much.

  2. . Worked consistently from 1968-2014 due to the caliber of his craft and not just nostalgia like most others on this list. He even worked on a story in 2020 for marvel, and the work was still good. To be consistent for so many decades and be able to work on so many varied stories for so many different publishers, I can't think of anyone else like him in that regard.

3. 34th all time most pages inked, that alone is impressive. Whats more though, I think the only guy on both lists with similar numbers is John Byrne (and he was mostly just inking himself). To be able to mesh with so many other artists as both a penciller and inker to the point you are HOF caliber in both over a 50+ year span, that is unique in comic book history. 

4. The man is 86 years old, and he is still doing high quality commissions of varied and unique characters. I've seen work from him over the last 5 years that looked like something he could have done in the 1970's (my favorite era for his work). How many artists have ever been capable of that? So many later in life commissions by some of the greats are mere shadows of the work they produced while in their prime. The same can no be said for Sal's output. That shows a love and dedication to the craft. That means something, at least to me. 

5. The man did almost 14k pages while only working on 675 stories. Think about that, most of these guys "padded" those numbers by doing tons of fill in pages on huge jam books with multiple artists. Sal's output is almost exclusively as a penciller on books he was the primary artist on. The books sank or swam with him as the artist because he was usually pencilling all the pages. And he was so good, so consistent, he was given decades and decades of first run titles to pencil and almost all from the varied main stream publishers. It wasn't all self published or single character runs for one company. He could and did work as the primary artist carrying the book on dozens and dozens of different runs. He could and did work on any almost any character for any publisher who needed quality work done in quick order.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the guy. Him being a good dude who is humble as heck and good to fans of course plays a part in this as well. But just on the quality, scope, and longevity of his work I say the man is a top 10 comic book artist of all time and a top 5 marvel artist specifically.

[JadeGiant]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:31 PM, trimpehulk said:

The Man called …Sal Buscema 

Great page Dom!

 

[JadeGiant]

I haven't shared this for a while, might be a good time and place to do again (hoping to flush out a 227 page). 

[fmaz]

Sorry I’m so late to the Sal love-fest.  😂. Love Sal.. especially, as others have mentioned, Sal 1.0. While I still enjoyed his long later run on Spectacular Spidey, I grew up on his Hulk, MTU and Cap.  Loved how he drew Spidey and Cap in the early days. I used to try to copy the way he did the “A” on Cap’s mask all the time because I thought it looked so great. 
That’s why I was so happy that this was my second-ever OA purchase many moons ago…

[Sitcomics]

Sal is the best. Brand new Sal Buscema comic, The Blue Baron, just went on sale yesterday via Diamond. Sal drew the cover and inked all 60 interiors penciled by Ron Frenz. Company is called Binge Books. (Shameless plug alert)

[Rick2you2]

When I first saw this thread, I assumed it was going to be satirical. Guess not.

Sal did his job; he illustrated stories. Mostly, in pretty conventional ways. There is nothing I find brilliant about his work. It isn’t particularly clever or finely drawn, although the raw volume is impressive. Compare it to, say, Chaykin or Wrightson or Lee. There, you can find brilliance. That doesn’t mean Sal is a bad artist. He had the house style down nicely. And maybe there is a “pocket universe” somewhere in which he qualifies for godhood—but not this one.

Feels good to get that off my chest.

[Bronty]

Double post

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Bronty

[Bronty]

I get that comic art is subjective and coloured by nostalgia to boot, so people won’t agree on the relative rankings of artists in the pantheon, but it’s a stretch worthy of Mr Fantastic.   
 

He certainly did a job, and did it… many times.  
 

So, he was good enough and fast enough and dependable enough to have longevity and that’s to his credit.

I can understand Sal being someone’s favorite artist.    I find it difficult to understand him being an artist that inspires though. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Bronty

[JadeGiant]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:39 AM, fmaz said:

Sorry I’m so late to the Sal love-fest.  😂. Love Sal.. especially, as others have mentioned, Sal 1.0. While I still enjoyed his long later run on Spectacular Spidey, I grew up on his Hulk, MTU and Cap.  Loved how he drew Spidey and Cap in the early days. I used to try to copy the way he did the “A” on Cap’s mask all the time because I thought it looked so great. 
That’s why I was so happy that this was my second-ever OA purchase many moons ago…

That's an amazing page! Thanks for sharing! 

[Bronty]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:39 AM, fmaz said:

Sorry I’m so late to the Sal love-fest.  😂. Love Sal.. especially, as others have mentioned, Sal 1.0. While I still enjoyed his long later run on Spectacular Spidey, I grew up on his Hulk, MTU and Cap.  Loved how he drew Spidey and Cap in the early days. I used to try to copy the way he did the “A” on Cap’s mask all the time because I thought it looked so great. 
That’s why I was so happy that this was my second-ever OA purchase many moons ago…

 

There is something satisfying about that A I agree

[zhamlau]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:05 AM, Sitcomics said:

Sal is the best. Brand new Sal Buscema comic, The Blue Baron, just went on sale yesterday via Diamond. Sal drew the cover and inked all 60 interiors penciled by Ron Frenz. Company is called Binge Books. (Shameless plug alert)

Its quality work, superior to most art in comics these days, and he is producing it in his 80's. Nearly every other artist when they hit even close to this age is coasting on diminished skills and nostalgia.

Again, some folks "don't get it" and can't see the value in 50+ year active streak where he worked at a high level loved by fans of multiple generations. He isn't flashy, I get it. He was just consistently very good and multi-talented for many many decades in a way no other artist really has ever been. You take any one year out as an example of course you can find someone you might like better, maybe a few guys even. So be it. The issue is when you add up that 50 year stream of constant mainstream fan supported work, the quality output and longevity really start to make an impact on the artist and his legacy.

I think of baseball whenever I see this discussion.

You hit .290 with 25 HR and 160 hits one year, hey that's pretty good. Not gonna be MVP most likely but you could make an all star game.

You do that same stat line consistently for 25 years straight...you go into the hall first ballot and you are guaranteed in the discussion of "all time great players".

 

 

[Bronty]

Conceptually I understand the analogy, but how about .235 with 5HR a year?  

You get a very different result.    The argument is not whether excellence and longevity results in greatness. 

The argument here is as to excellence.   No one is arguing the longevity, and no one is arguing a base level of skill.

    

[zhamlau]

That .235 hitter with 5 wouldn’t be allowed to stay in the bigs for 25 years is the issue. You only hold a spot that long if you were producing at a high level consistently. 

[vodou]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:53 PM, zhamlau said:

That .235 hitter with 5 wouldn’t be allowed to stay in the bigs for 25 years is the issue. You only hold a spot that long if you were producing at a high level consistently. 

Is it possible that Marvel (and to a lesser degree DC) didn't have exactly the same demanding hiring/firing/salary cap requirements as MLB?  

[Bronty]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:53 PM, zhamlau said:

That .235 hitter with 5 wouldn’t be allowed to stay in the bigs for 25 years is the issue. You only hold a spot that long if you were producing at a high level consistently. 

I don’t know baseball well enough to know what the minimum is.   .250?

At the risk of mentioning the obvious, drawing and baseball are different skills.    Baseball requires more physicality.    It’s a lot easier to draw for 25 years than it is to play in the MLB for 25 years, and due to the effects of aging you really can’t play baseball at the same level over your whole career, so to play for 25 years, you were great once.   That’s really not the case with most professions.    You can have a long career in say insurance , or as a comic artist, without ever having been great for even a single season.   

Edited April 29, 2022 by Bronty

[JadeGiant]

How about taking the dispute (that we have all heard more times than is needed) to PM as you are obviously having the same repeated conversation, between the same people ... over, and over, and over again. It's tired to be honest and is not a welcome thread derail. Please, and thank you. 

[zhamlau]

On 4/29/2022 at 4:06 PM, vodou said:

Is it possible that Marvel (and to a lesser degree DC) didn't have exactly the same demanding hiring/firing/salary cap requirements as MLB?  

I guess the test would be to see how many artists both companies hired for 45 years straight to pencil and ink major books, and compare it to the number of MLB players who played say 25 straight seasons in a row, and compare each groups relative stats? Then I guess compare those groups against say the standards for each league/company?

I mean that should be a small list of elites in both sets and should give us the basis to compare from there.

[zhamlau]

On 4/29/2022 at 4:33 PM, Bronty said:

I don’t know baseball well enough to know what the minimum is.   .250?

At the risk of mentioning the obvious, drawing and baseball are different skills.    Baseball requires more physicality.    It’s a lot easier to draw for 25 years than it is to play in the MLB for 25 years, and due to the effects of aging you really can’t play baseball at the same level over your whole career, so to play for 25 years, you were great once.   That’s really not the case with most professions.    You can have a long career in say insurance , or as a comic artist, without ever having been great for even a single season.   

How many artists worked on main stream books for 45 years? If it was easy the list should be pretty big. If the list is small compared to all the artists who worked in similar material. I think the list should be like 1-2 guys and Sal is one of them. Because of that I don’t think your comparisons work.

[zhamlau]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:46 PM, JadeGiant said:

How about taking the dispute (that we have all heard more times than is needed) to PM as you are obviously having the same repeated conversation, between the same people ... over, and over, and over again. It's tired to be honest and is not a welcome thread derail. Please, and thank you. 

Fair point, some don’t want to see it or can’t. Why argue at that point I guess. No need then to reply to my questions, we’re likely just never going to see eye to eye on this.

[Rick2you2]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:59 PM, zhamlau said:

I guess the test would be to see how many artists both companies hired for 45 years straight to pencil and ink major books, and compare it to the number of MLB players who played say 25 straight seasons in a row, and compare each groups relative stats? Then I guess compare those groups against say the standards for each league/company?

I mean that should be a small list of elites in both sets and should give us the basis to compare from there.

No, not a valid test because this subject is governed by complacency. Comic Art is not a competition, as much as we wish it were. Comics are a business designed to get out a product that generates a solid rate of return. If the public accepted Sal’s work, and the books continue to sell for a profit, why risk it on a better artist? If anything, put the new artist on a different book and see how that works out. 

Sal’s work does what it was supposed to do: illustrate a story while moving the plot forward. Good job, not godhood.

One thing I didn’t like about his work were the facial expressions. He had like, 5 stock expressions which he could increase or decrease in tonality. Pick a situation, add expression #3, adjust eyebrows, and move on. If a situation didn’t fit a stock expression, leave it out.