Does Expertise/Experience no longer matter to be a dealer? 8 8

[blazingbob]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:43 PM, wombat said:

I don't get the attitude to always offer less than asking. So if the person has it listed at what you would consider a very good price you will still try and haggle over the price?

Hell no,  We are comic book price assassins.   We go for the jugular,  leave the dealer bleeding,  leave him enough profit to afford the next McDonald's happy meal, post the trophy buy on instagram where the likes come poring in on the new trophy piece you got for a "steal".  Flip it,  make more then the dealer and then come back next time looking for the next "kill".  

Edited April 17, 2022 by blazingbob

[Axe Elf]

I was out for a while and missed a chunk of the conversation, but whether it's good business to negotiate or bad business, I still see it as independent from experience/expertise.

There was a seller on eeBay that I thought was constantly overgrading/overpricing his books, and there were a couple I wanted, so I sent what I thought was a fair offer, pointing out the book's flaws and saying basically there's no way THIS book is worth THAT price.  His response was basically, "I know, but if I just keep relisting it, eventually somebody will buy it."

Fair enough, that's the way he does business, and that is his right.  It just won't be ME buying it.  I don't think it makes him inexperienced; in fact, it sounds like he has at least a modicum of experience in hooking fish, and it's working for him.  I didn't run around whining about some dealer not giving me the price I wanted, I just moved on.

[Krydel4]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:37 PM, Ryan. said:

So a buyer is annoyed at a dealer who has a 9.6 but won't sell it for the price of a 9.2? Cool thread.

I'm not. A seller can put any price on their books. In my estimation it was not a 9.6. for the reasons I mentioned and it was overpriced based upon recent sales data that he was trying to use to price his book. 

On 4/16/2022 at 5:37 PM, blazingbob said:

Ok,  but why buy an overgraded copy?

I didn't. I walked away cause I wasn't going to purchase an overgraded copy.

Thank you everyone for your responses. It's helped me come to some understanding of the current dealer environment. I've had 3 takeaways based upon the question I asked in the Topic header:

1. That dealers do not have to know or have knowledge of grading or how to grade. That 3rd party grading companies are now the arbiters of all grading in the hobby and are infallible and any questioning of their grades is heretical.

2. Customer Service and/or creating relationships with customers is unnecessary and annoying. 

3. Pricing is solely the based off of 3rd Party data algorithms that create prices within a vacuum, that are absolute and never subject to environment, context, or circumstance. 

It's definitely a Brave New World for collectors. ✌️

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Krydel4
Clarity

[Transplant]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:54 PM, blazingbob said:

 We are comic book price assassins.  

Thanks for the T-shirt idea. 

[Ed Hanes]

I remember a dealer in the early 80's who marked his comics as NM -Mint condition ...and most of it was Fine at best, with a lot of it in the VG or worse range (but always marked it NM-M)...aside from him, many dealers in the 70's and 80's were very liberal with their grading for selling and conservative when buying...so, my point is that their 'expertise' has to do with being businessmen..and making as much money as they can with each sale.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Ed Hanes

[blazingbob]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:05 PM, Krydel4 said:

I'm not. A seller can put any price on their books. In my estimation it was not a 9.6. for the reasons I mentioned and it was overpriced based upon recent sales data that he was trying to use to price his book. 

I didn't. I walked away cause I wasn't going to purchase an overgraded copy.

Thank you everyone for your responses. It's helped me come to some understanding of the current dealer environment. I've had 3 takeaways based upon the question I asked in the Topic header:

1. That dealers do not have to know or have knowledge of grading or how to grade. That 3rd party grading companies are now the arbiters of all grading in the hobby and are infallible and any questioning of their grades is heretical.

2. Customer Service and/or creating relationships with customers is unnecessary and annoying. 

3. Pricing is solely the based off of 3rd Party data algorithms that create prices within a vacuum, that are absolute and never subject to environment, context, or circumstance. 

It's definitely a Brave New World for collectors. ✌️

 

I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself all over the place.

Your words " I made an offer that was within 15% of the GPA price he had listed as I thought the book was at best a 9.0-9.2 given the visible defects"

If he accepted you would have bought the over graded book.  

 

 

[shadroch]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:26 PM, blazingbob said:

I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself all over the place.

Your words " I made an offer that was within 15% of the GPA price he had listed as I thought the book was at best a 9.0-9.2 given the visible defects"

If he accepted you would have bought the over graded book.  

 

 

He wanted it to read.  

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:54 PM, blazingbob said:

Hell no,  We are comic book price assassins.   We go for the jugular,  leave the dealer bleeding,  leave him enough profit to afford the next McDonald's happy meal, post the trophy buy on instagram where the likes come poring in on the new trophy piece you got for a "steal".  Flip it,  make more then the dealer and then come back next time looking for the next "kill".  

You know what I love about you Bob. You always give a straight and honest answer.  You are as honest as the day is long. 

[Krydel4]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:26 PM, blazingbob said:

I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself all over the place.

Your words " I made an offer that was within 15% of the GPA price he had listed as I thought the book was at best a 9.0-9.2 given the visible defects"

If he accepted you would have bought the over graded book.  

 

 

No. I would have purchased it with the price equivalent of a 9.2 which is what I believed the book was. I also was not expecting him to take my first offer. I've never had a dealer take my first offer.

[blazingbob]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:36 PM, Krydel4 said:

No. I would have purchased it with the price equivalent of a 9.2 which is what I believed the book was. I also was not expecting him to take my first offer. I've never had a dealer take my first offer.

So the first part of your negotiating plan to buy this book was to convince the dealer it was over graded and best a 9.2.  Then buy it at the 9.2 price.  And this dealer is supposed to believe that you are a good grader without ever seeing examples of how you grade? 

If you've never done business with the seller how do judge their grading skill?  By their CGC inventory?  By their raw inventory?   

How exactly is that building a dealer/customer relationship?     

 

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:36 PM, Krydel4 said:

No. I would have purchased it with the price equivalent of a 9.2 which is what I believed the book was. I also was not expecting him to take my first offer. I've never had a dealer take my first offer.

If you are going to crack the book out why bother with a book that is a graded 9.6 , but YOU feel it's a 9.2? Why not just buy a raw book.  The dealer can ask for whatever he wants for the damn thing. If it's not to your liking,  go somewhere else! Do you go to the grocery store and tell the cashier that you want to pay less for a gallon of milk because it has a dent in the carton? They would just laugh at you I'm sure.

[Iceman399]

If you offered 15% off his price...which puts it at a 9.0/9.2 pricing but it's a 9.6, which the dealer had priced at the slightly higher end of 9.6

 

What dollar book were you so butt hurt about that the price between a 9.0/9.2 to a 9.6 is only 15%

[oakman29]

The OP should stop being a Shmoe and consider that the dealer can do whatever the hell he wants with his books, and shut the heck up. What crazy stupid thread.😏

[Iceman399]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:13 PM, Transplant said:

Thanks for the T-shirt idea. 

Can we get hoodies for those of us who live in the colder weather?

[Kevin76]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:36 PM, Krydel4 said:

No. I would have purchased it with the price equivalent of a 9.2 which is what I believed the book was. I also was not expecting him to take my first offer. I've never had a dealer take my first offer.

I've seen plenty of buyers point out defects on books to try and get a discount, Don't complain to me about how CGC graded the book, Call the toll free 877 number and talk to them about it, Books in high grade are getting tougher to find and this stuff isn't getting any cheaper, the dealer priced the book what he needs to get out of it, Dealers don't hunt, spend, grade, wait 10 months to get it back so they can accept your "9.2" slab price on a 9.6 they got. If you didn't like the grade, pass and look for something else. 

 

[thehumantorch]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:40 PM, Kramerica said:

So true. When I go to a Con I don't transform into Haggle Man and barter at every table. That sounds exhausting and the opposite of fun - something I like to have at a Con. What's wrong with paying the asking price on a reasonably priced book? And I don't want every dealer thinking "Sh*t, here comes Haggle Man again - time to put up my defenses" every time I approach their booth. I'm already a stickler with my registration and presentation issues so I'm not going to add another OCD quirk to keep me from obtaining something that I'm supposed to be enjoying. No, if I see a book that is decently priced with good registration, no miswrap and rust free staples I'm going to pay the man and rejoice. Later on I will spend quality time with the book when we're all alone. 

It's a rare buyer who'll pay sticker price on a fairly priced graded book.  95% of the time you'll get an offer lower than your sticker.  Many sellers price over GPA so they have room to negotiate.

[oakman29]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:23 PM, Ed Hanes said:

I remember a dealer in the early 80's who marked his comics as NM -Mint condition ...and most of it was Fine at best, with a lot of it in the VG or worse range (but always marked it NM-M)...aside from him, many dealers in the 70's and 80's were very liberal with their grading for selling and conservative when buying...so, my point is that their 'expertise' has to do with being businessmen..and making as much money as they can with each sale.

I never buy from that Colorado tycoon either.😂

[Krydel4]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:46 PM, blazingbob said:

So the first part of your negotiating plan to buy this book was to convince the dealer it was over graded and best a 9.2.  Then buy it at the 9.2 price.  And this dealer is supposed to believe that you are a good grader without ever seeing examples of how you grade? 

If you've never done business with the seller how do judge their grading skill?  By their CGC inventory?  By their raw inventory?   

How exactly is that building a dealer/customer relationship?     

 

I guess I don't know what to expect. I pointed out the flaws. I never said to him what I thought the grade was just that with those flaws it couldn't be a 9.6. I made an offer higher than 3 of the 4 most recent sales for a 9.6 (and it was higher than the most recent sale). I was trying to buy the book not the label which was obviously my mistake and was met with the attitude. Maybe the seller could have said "Well the label says 9.6 and I'm not a grader and there was a sale for this price so that's what I'm firm selling it it." I don't have a problem with that and maybe I would have walked away with a neutral experience instead of the negative and at another con checked out his stuff again.

On 4/16/2022 at 6:46 PM, oakman29 said:

If you are going to crack the book out why bother with a book that is a graded 9.6 , but YOU feel it's a 9.2? Why not just buy a raw book.  The dealer can ask for whatever he wants for the damn thing. If it's not to your liking,  go somewhere else! Do you go to the grocery store and tell the cashier that you want to pay less for a gallon of milk because it has a dent in the carton? They would just laugh at you I'm sure.

Again that's a primary market not a secondary one. I would expect them to laugh as that would be inappropriate in that setting and context. And I would hope for some civility and less name calling regardingthe Shmoe comment. Thank you.

On 4/16/2022 at 6:49 PM, Iceman399 said:

If you offered 15% off his price...which puts it at a 9.0/9.2 pricing but it's a 9.6, which the dealer had priced at the slightly higher end of 9.6

 

What dollar book were you so butt hurt about that the price between a 9.0/9.2 to a 9.6 is only 15%

See above regarding what I offered and my reasoning behind it.

 

Again, I asked a simple question in the Topic header and some have answered it and given their opinion. Thank you for your on topic responses. Appreciated. Cheers.

[oakman29]

What is the book in question anyway?

[Transplant]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:51 PM, Iceman399 said:

Can we get hoodies for those of us who live in the colder weather?

You can print it on your thermals.