Adams vs. Kirby 0

[Rick2you2]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:52 PM, rjpb said:

While both were comic book artists best known for their superhero work, their styles are too different for me to have an opinion as to who was more significant. Kirby's output was far larger, and he had several periods of impact, so his influence is likely greater, but both are legends, and I can't really say who's work I prefer. It would be like trying to pick between Toth and Wolverton. 

Who do you like better, not who is more significant. I generally prefer Adams, but it also depends on the subject matter of the work.

[Jeffro.]

Adams' work is some of the prettiest and dynamic ever in comics (at least up until the 80s) and I love his stuff but for sheer creativity and impact, I always go back to Kirby. When looking at the whole picture, it's not a contest but that's just me.

To go off topic here, I prefer Wrightson, Kubert, and Heath over Adams.

Edited May 12, 2022 by JEFFROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[rjpb]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:14 PM, Rick2you2 said:

Who do you like better, not who is more significant. I generally prefer Adams, but it also depends on the subject matter of the work.

There were two questions, personal preference and impact in the field.

[Rick2you2]

On 5/3/2022 at 6:57 PM, rjpb said:

There were two questions, personal preference and impact in the field.

So, you have no preference? Or perhaps it depends, that’s fine too.

[rjpb]

On 5/3/2022 at 5:51 PM, Rick2you2 said:

So, you have no preference? Or perhaps it depends, that’s fine too.

It's apples and oranges to me. I don't collect either artist, though I have bought books by both in the past. I appreciate them both, as I do with a considerable number of other artists. I just can't really compare the two as their styles and approach to illustrating is so different, but it's often even tough for me to pick a fave when styles are closer, as with Gene Colan and Adams. I have personal tiers of artist favorites, but don't tend to rank one over the other in a given tier. If there is one comic artist I hold higher than all others it would be Robert Crumb, but he wouldn't be my preferred artist for every type of comic.

Such preferences can also be influenced by content and characters artists are most associated with, it's hard to imagine Kirby matching Adams on Batman if he had drawn the book, or Adams matching Kirby's work on FF. We do have examples of both working on the same book, but these are either Marvel books far more associated with Kirby, or a title like Jimmy Olsen where Adams just did covers. I'd probably pick Adams' work on the Kree/Skrull war issues of Avengers over Kirby's early work on the title, but that's also influenced by the writing. The early Avengers stories never did much for me, while the Kree/Skrull arc is a classic of the era. 

[Randall Dowling]

I like car analogies.  And as such they are extremely debatable, but for me, Kirby was a Jeep, the workhorse of WWII, incredibly flexible and functional and would eventually become the first of a whole new class of vehicles that we call "SUVs" today;  but Adams was a Ferrari, revolutionized and dominated racing with unparalleled performance,  redefined what the intersection between style, design and automobiles looked like, and made you feel special just looking at one.  

[Joshua33]

Adams all day. Of course I prefer DC to Marvel as well, but Adams just crushed Batman, Green Lantern, Deadman, etc in such a way, that even today its hard to find comparables. Then you switch to Marvel and I still think I'd take most Adams Avengers covers over that of Kirbys. Different eras, and both GOATs for different reasons, but my preference is Adams and it's not close.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Joshua33
Spell

[Kevin76]

Kirby is called the King of Comics for a reason

Adams was more of an illustrator than a comic book artist that Kirby was. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Kevin76

[Kevin76]

On 5/3/2022 at 11:32 PM, Joshua33 said:

Adams all day. Of course I prefer DC to Marvel as well, but Adams just crushed Batman, Green Lantern, Deadman, etc in such a way, that even today its hard to find comparables. Then you switch to Marvel and I still think I'd take most Adams Avengers covers over that of Kirbys. Different eras, and both GOATs for different reasons, but my preference is Adams and it's not close.

Adams is great but his layouts didn't make the character leap off the page like Kirby's did, which is what made Kirby special 

[Joshua33]

On 5/3/2022 at 10:22 PM, Kevin76 said:

Adams is great but his layouts didn't make the character leap off the page like Kirby's did, which is what made Kirby special 

I'd argue that Neal did it better, regardless of layout. You know... the jumping off the page thing.

[RBerman]

It's tough to compare artists of different generations. If Neal sees farther, it is partly because he stands on Kirby's shoulders. I always enjoyed Adams' moody lighting effects in the 70s, and his art retained an admirable level of detail even recently. So I choose him, which in no way diminishes Kirby's crucial role as an industry innovator in genre formation, character creation, layout, posing, and the rest.

[Timely]

Kirby had his hand on so many things from 1940's-1990's. Superheroes, Romance, Westerns, Crime, Monsters, back to Superheroes, etc. He had a hand in creating a ton of characters & even the genres themselves!  I'm struggling to think of 1 thing Adams actually created.  He was good at advancing the art of already established entities, but created almost none by comparison.

Artistically they are too different to compare. You either like the styles they implemented or you didn't. I appreciate both!

[The Voord]

On 5/4/2022 at 4:02 PM, Timely said:

Kirby had his hand on so many things from 1940's-1990's. Superheroes, Romance, Westerns, Crime, Monsters, back to Superheroes, etc. He had a hand in creating a ton of characters & even the genres themselves!  I'm struggling to think of 1 thing Adams actually created.  He was good at advancing the art of already established entities, but created almost none by comparison.

Artistically they are too different to compare. You either like the styles they implemented or you didn't. I appreciate both!

This.

[Will_K]

On 5/4/2022 at 11:02 AM, Timely said:

Kirby had his hand on so many things from 1940's-1990's. Superheroes, Romance, Westerns, Crime, Monsters, back to Superheroes, etc. He had a hand in creating a ton of characters & even the genres themselves!  I'm struggling to think of 1 thing Adams actually created.  He was good at advancing the art of already established entities, but created almost none by comparison.

Artistically they are too different to compare. You either like the styles they implemented or you didn't. I appreciate both!

I prefer Neal Adams' style.  Mainly because I grew up on DC (and read almost no Kirby DC work).  But Jack Kirby's impact is truly so profound that it can't be measured.

I think a lot of Adams' image has a lot to do with his own self-promotion (ego).  Not that he hasn't earned the right to that.  Adams did more to promote a realistic drawing style than any other artist (e.g. Stan Drake, Al Williamson) by producing dynamic interiors and beautiful covers.  And directly teaching / training a generation of artists (e.g. Mike Nasser, Rich Buckler and anyone that worked at Continuity Associates).  There are many, many many artists that can draw in a realistic style...  but almost none of them have drawn comic books.  That also requires the ability to tell a story.  That's something that Adams and Kirby had in abundance.

[drdroom]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:36 AM, RBerman said:

It's tough to compare artists of different generations. If Neal sees farther, it is partly because he stands on Kirby's shoulders. I always enjoyed Adams' moody lighting effects in the 70s, and his art retained an admirable level of detail even recently. So I choose him, which in no way diminishes Kirby's crucial role as an industry innovator in genre formation, character creation, layout, posing, and the rest.

Thanks for providing this image, it saves me going to find one. It illustrates my only semi-fresh observation on all this, which is that Adams is not actually a realist any more than Kirby was. He just applied a finish that people associate with realism. Look at him inventing arm and back muscles here, in a much more improvisational manner than Kirby actually. It's not just in these late sketches either, but all through Neal's classic era. 

[kbmcvay]

On 5/4/2022 at 6:25 PM, drdroom said:

Thanks for providing this image, it saves me going to find one. It illustrates my only semi-fresh observation on all this, which is that Adams is not actually a realist any more than Kirby was. He just applied a finish that people associate with realism. Look at him inventing arm and back muscles here, in a much more improvisational manner than Kirby actually. It's not just in these late sketches either, but all through Neal's classic era. 

This reminds of something John Byrne said about Adams on his board years ago - "Neal Adams draws things exactly how they look - if things actually looked like that."

[thehumantorch]

Kirby all day long.  Kirby created a universe of characters and influenced legions of artists.

[KirbyJack]

After seeing Neal Adams’ work for the first time, I thought “Wow! I love Neal Adams!” After seeing Jack Kirby’s, I thought, “Wow! I love this comic book!”

Kirby - Kirby for me.

[Bronty]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:39 PM, KirbyJack said:

After seeing Neal Adams’ work for the first time, I thought “Wow! I love Neal Adams!” After seeing Jack Kirby’s, I thought, “Wow! I love this comic book!”

Kirby - Kirby for me.

wow, that is such a simple and yet apt summary.   

[jjonahjameson11]

Adams and Adams for me...and its not even close!