Commission Problems 2 2

[Rick2you2]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:45 AM, mr_highgrade said:

 He told me that he didn't want to do a rush job, that's why he offered to take it home to do it. Like I said, this was my first and last time that I ever requested a sketch. 

And he got a nice beer night. He didn’t have to do a crummy job to do a simple one.
 

But more pointedly, you were not offering anything close to his market rate. That is an invitation to trouble; if he had done it, you would have gotten something that was around 40% of what he would normally put in (unless you were an old friend). It sounded like you were trying to take advantage of him due to his situation. As I said, I probably would have asked for just a quick sketch which he thought was worth $200, and see what he would do. Then, he may have surprised you.

[mr_highgrade]

How was I was trying to take advantage of his situation?  Did he need the money to pay his rent? Did I put a gun to his head and force him to accept the offer? He never even told me that it would be $500 or more for a sketch. 

He basically saw an opportunity to get some beer money for a sketch. 

[Rick2you2]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:31 PM, mr_highgrade said:

How was I was trying to take advantage of his situation?  Did he need the money to pay his rent? Did I put a gun to his head and force him to accept the offer? He never even told me that it would be $500 or more for a sketch. 

He basically saw an opportunity to get some beer money for a sketch. 

He told you his basic rate was $500, but you offered only $200. He also told you it was Friday night and he needed beer money. Hanging with the boys (and girls) can be just as important as rent for social beings. So, from some perspectives, you dangled a lowball offer, and then gave him a way out. Incidentally, I almost never get commissions from artists unless they can do it at the show (or I know them or can get them vouched for by someone I trust). Too many bad stories.

[cmaeditor]

I just talked to Norm today about the Inking commission that he has supposedly been working on since 2019. I asked because he posted another inking job yesterday of a drawing from 2021. I asked what the progress was. His response was that he had the bluelines printed. Needless to say, I was livid. I let him know. He is now promising to have it finished by the end of the week. We shall see!

[AndyFish]

When I was in art school a professor told me a story about a buyer asking a seller if he'd take 30% off a painting he had in a gallery show-- the artist agreed and when the painting was delivered after the show 30% of it had been cut off.  There's a general rule of thumb that you don't ever ask an artist for a lower price-- that's what agents are for.  In this case I don't see it as the same thing-- but I agree 1000% that I would have said that's out of my price range-- how about $200 for a quick five min sketch right now and if he said no walk away.

I'm going to guess that you're still waiting for the cover sketch-- I know nothing about his reputation and have found all of the Kubert's to be upstanding folks-- but the pattern of taking work at a show and then promising to mail it seldom works out no matter who makes the promise.

[Rick2you2]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:45 AM, mr_highgrade said:

 He told me that he didn't want to do a rush job, that's why he offered to take it home to do it. Like I said, this was my first and last time that I ever requested a sketch. 

He didn’t have to a rush job. Just a sketch.

[cmaeditor]

It looks like i finally got some resolution. I got the following image via Facebook Messenger earlier.

 

[MIL0S]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:40 AM, AndyFish said:

the pattern of taking work at a show and then promising to mail it seldom works out no matter who makes the promise.

agree with that, I've gotten burned a few times by some big names and won't do that again... 

but I took the gamble with David Peterson back in 2010 at New York Comic Con. The con was on October 8th and I commissioned a pet portrait of my girlfriends dog and he assured me that I'd have it in time to be a Christmas gift and true to his word I received the art about a month later. I got another commission from David last year through his website when his commission list opened up and although I don't recall the exact dates it was delivered quickly within the stated timeframe. Ernie Chan was another great artist to deal with for mail order commission, super prompt and a gentlemen. 

[ExNihilo]

On 8/17/2022 at 4:27 PM, cmaeditor said:

It looks like i finally got some resolution. I got the following image via Facebook Messenger earlier.

 

That's yours?  Holy crap.  I remember when Brett Booth posted that on social somewhere.  I thought it was so badass.  Man, glad that piece was finally completed for you.

[mr_highgrade]

So...I thought I would wrap this up. About a month later this arrived. 

 

[alxjhnsn]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:01 PM, MIL0S said:

agree with that, I've gotten burned a few times by some big names and won't do that again... 

but I took the gamble with David Peterson back in 2010 at New York Comic Con. The con was on October 8th and I commissioned a pet portrait of my girlfriends dog and he assured me that I'd have it in time to be a Christmas gift and true to his word I received the art about a month later. I got another commission from David last year through his website when his commission list opened up and although I don't recall the exact dates it was delivered quickly within the stated timeframe. Ernie Chan was another great artist to deal with for mail order commission, super prompt and a gentlemen. 

David is a fine man.

[Rick2you2]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:42 PM, mr_highgrade said:

So...I thought I would wrap this up. About a month later this arrived. 

 

Consider yourself lucky. Not everyone would have followed through. In 2009 dollars, I would have expected more for $500, but for $200, I think you got a fair deal.

[NoMan]

I’m thinking of getting Frank Miller to do something. I think it will go well

[Peter L]

Out of the blue with no notice, I got mailed one of the commissions.  

I think the disappointment that made me start this thread was because I was led to believe I would get both commissions at the cons where I gave the money.  Subsequent messages also confirmed my thoughts and later messages confirmed that they would be produced soon.  We can say this should be worked out at the time of payment but when the artist doesn't come through, what recourse is there?  Sure we could cause a scene or get mad and stuff like that, but where I am in my life stage right now, I don't really feel like expending that energy.  At no time did I ever think I was going to get stiffed and never see the work with these two artists.

I had a famous/infamous contractor design and build my office.  I knew him for about a decade when I hired him.  I was warned by some not to use him, and confirmed by others on how he does great work.  He gave me an estimate that it would be ready in about 8 months.  I doubled the time estimate in my mind, knowing his history.  He came in right on time in my mind.  I think if either of these artists/reps had said it will be an undetermined time frame, I would have probably accepted that better.  I may not have commissioned them or might have.  

Regarding Frank Miller, at a recent con I inquired about two small commissions.  I first was told he couldn't because he didn't bring anything to do them with, but then said if I bought him the pens, pencil and eraser he would.  So I did.  I was told it would be ready by the end of the con in a few days.  I got a call before the con was over and the commissions were ready early, in fact so early I wasn't prepared to physically pick them up yet.  So the bottom line is that we can say this and that and make excuses for artists, but Frank Miller came through really fast ahead of schedule with what looks like quality work.

[F For Fake]

I stopped collecting commissions in favor of published work several years ago, but I had a lot of good experiences, and no bad ones that I can recall.

Many, many years ago, I did mail order commissions from Bret Blevins and Fred Hembeck. Both were fast, friendly, and did beautiful work. That's back when you could get a full color pin-up from Bret for $200!

At shows I've commissioned pieces from Phil Noto, Dave Johnson, Joe Linsner, Kelley Jones, Tim Sale...and suddenly can't think of the many others. But all of those folks were easy to work with, did great stuff, and had them done by the end of the show.

So, I think there are definitely a lot of good folks out there doing the right thing. When I was still doing commissions, I'd just show at up the table when the show opened, and get on their list, but I never had any request more time to take it home. I think that would be a deal breaker for me.

[paqart]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:26 AM, New School Fool said:

Oh no! Damn that must be really annoying! 😰

This is what I mean, the artist knows he messed up with the first commission. So much that he felt guilty to put it right with the second. I mean, they're aware of them messing up. But then only to do it again (when I assume they're actively trying not to....!). Are their schedules just so hectic that they can't avoid it, or are they just so bad at scheduling and forever putting it off to tomorrow? Surely this behaviour can't be intentional right?

Coincidentally, I've just been updated that an artist I requested and paid for a commission that I have been waiting a year and a half for has finally finished it. The artist works digitally so I asked for a traditional recreation of one of their digital covers. This enables me to directly compare the two, and while I'm glad the artist finally finished it after so long, it's obvious they rushed it in the end so left feeling a little bittersweet.

It's hard to say. Drawing comic books is more work than almost any art-related field and pays less than practically anything else an artist can do to make money (top earners excluded). It's the kind of "job" that can keep an artist chained to his table for every waking hour, every day of the week until a comic is done, and then the cycle starts up again the very next day. That said, anyone who can make a living as a comic book artist has to work fairly fast. That means that in a situation such as is described here, it is unlikely he was laboring over the commission. Much more likely, it wasn't started on time because he put it off to do something else. The way some artists are in high demand to do commissions, I can picture those artists accepting commissions all day long at a convention without stopping to think about how much work they are now obligated to do. I can picture that kind of situation creating exactly the problem you describe.
Recently, artist Graham Nolan offered commissions as a way to promote a comic he was publishing. He wisely limited how many commissions he would do, knowing how long it would take to execute them.

[RBerman]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:43 PM, paqart said:

It's hard to say. Drawing comic books is more work than almost any art-related field and pays less than practically anything else an artist can do to make money (top earners excluded). It's the kind of "job" that can keep an artist chained to his table for every waking hour, every day of the week until a comic is done, and then the cycle starts up again the very next day. That said, anyone who can make a living as a comic book artist has to work fairly fast. That means that in a situation such as is described here, it is unlikely he was laboring over the commission. Much more likely, it wasn't started on time because he put it off to do something else. The way some artists are in high demand to do commissions, I can picture those artists accepting commissions all day long at a convention without stopping to think about how much work they are now obligated to do. I can picture that kind of situation creating exactly the problem you describe.
Recently, artist Graham Nolan offered commissions as a way to promote a comic he was publishing. He wisely limited how many commissions he would do, knowing how long it would take to execute them.

Why is Nolan not the norm? Professionals should know better. My respect for an artist increases when he tells me, “What you are asking is more than I have time for right now.” Or those who only take payment on completion.

Since some artists are unable to manage themselves, it falls to collectors to share information about the good actors and the bad actors so that others can at least make informed decisions before making partial or full payments in advance on work that will be difficult to collect.

[The Voord]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:40 PM, AndyFish said:

When I was in art school a professor told me a story about a buyer asking a seller if he'd take 30% off a painting he had in a gallery show-- the artist agreed and when the painting was delivered after the show 30% of it had been cut off.  

Love it!  

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:45 AM, mr_highgrade said:

Like I said, this was my first and last time that I ever requested a sketch. 

You paid $200 to learn a lesson that a boatload of people had to learn paying a lot more than that. The best part is that it actually showed up, congrats!

Edited November 26, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[mr_highgrade]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:29 PM, Dr. Balls said:

You paid $200 to learn a lesson that a boatload of people had to learn paying a lot more than that. The best part is that it actually showed up, congrats!

I forgot to mention that the reason I believe it showed up, is because I left a very polite voice message on his answering machine at his house.