PCH noob here - help with etiquette to avoid lowballing. 1 1

[Dr. Balls]

Longtime collector, was drawn back to comics by the art and stories of PCH. I've got a GPA subscription, and my kung fu is strong on Google. However, I am noticing that asking for 2X "market value" on graded PCH is very common (and I don't necessarily mean here on the boards but like MyComicShop and Ebay in particular). But, I'd like to understand some variances a bit more because I don't want to earn a reputation of just lowballing people based on my previous sales guesses. I am not *always* looking for a deal, I know some books don't come up for sale as much as others, rarity among the census, etc. PCH has a lot more sales variables than SA/BA/MA and "market value" is a term that can mean a lot of different things in this genre.

A few caveats I'd like to point out before I get roasted here:

1. I have no bones about a seller asking whatever they want for a book. Nor do I feel entitled to any sort of discount simply because I am interested in a book.

2. I am trying to be conscious of the books value above GPA, taking into consideration shipping, buyer's premium, slab fees and FMV fees. I am running under the assumption that a $300 1.0 raw book that goes through the entire process can end up being a $450 1.0 slabbed book, and if GPA shows previous sales at $400, the seller has to recoup his investment and make a return (otherwise, what's the point?)

3. I am generally down in the lower grade tiers from 1.0-5.0, which I assume leaves a lot less margin for ROI on PCH books.

With that being said, let me use an real example (with the name of the book changed to protect the innocent):

A seller has classic cover, low census (90 on census) Insane Mysteries 22 in CGC 1.8 for sale at $4000

Insane Mysteries 22 CGC 3.0 sells recently on the boards for $2200.

Insane Mysteries 22 CGC 3.0 has a GPA sale from 3 years ago for $400, but a CGC 4.5 sold two months ago for $2900. Which seems, to me, that those two sales seem to be a fairly accurate valuation of the book within that grade range.

My thinking is that putting an offer at $1800 seems reasonable. As the buyer, I have to account that they pay fees for selling, etc. From the seller's side of thinking: the book doesn't come up often, and it presents nice. It's a classic cover, highly desirable. So there's two angles to which the buyer and seller can negotiate back and forth.

However, if a seller posts a book at $4k and gets an offer under $2k, my guess is that the first instinct is for them to scream 'LOWBALLER!'. And if they choose not to respond, I can understand that. But I'd like to get some people's input on how they feel when someone comes at them with a major price reduction. Does it annoy you? Is it understandable? Do you have a particular strategy on selling that looks at the book sale long term to get your asking price?

My end goal most of the time is to obtain a book I want at a price I can justify to myself. It's not so much about "investing" but more about making the right buying choices in the hobby and weighing it against my patience to wait it out until another comes to market. Which, in the PCH world is a much different timeline than say, waiting for a Hulk 181 to come up.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dr. Balls
Edited to clarify

[Point Five]

I wouldn't be afraid to shoot them the $1800 offer; the worst they can do is say no or not respond. Your sales data sounds reasonable, so I wouldn't call that lowballing.

I will say, there are *definitely* sellers who will price a book higher (even multiples higher) than what they expect to eventually get for it... it's kind of a ripple effect of the whole BIN/Best Offer system. Who knows if your seller is thinking that way, but there's no harm in trying.

 

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:11 PM, Point Five said:

I wouldn't be afraid to shoot them the $1800 offer; the worst they can do is say no or not respond. Your sales data sounds reasonable, so I wouldn't call that lowballing.

I will say, there are *definitely* sellers who will price a book higher (even multiples higher) than what they expect to eventually get for it... it's kind of a ripple effect of the whole BIN/Best Offer system. Who knows if your seller is thinking that way, but there's no harm in trying.

 

I did shoot them an offer, and currently waiting. Which, they could respond. I had some luck in a previous offer I made on MCS, and it was very similar. I came at them at 50% of their ask (that book had very little data on it, and it is a scarce type of book that doesn't come up), and we negotiated a price I was happy with, but I'm sure they were tired of the haggling - the last offer they sent added .01 to the final dollar amount on the counteroffer.

I guess the other part of what I am wondering is that are sellers deep diving into the books value as well when they price it? And from what I can tell on Ebay, I run into sellers about 50% of the time who are not Boardies (I routinely ask) - so in the case of a sale on the Boards (which isn't reported to GPA) - it might go under their radar.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[fifties]

I would suggest the best course of action might be to let the book season for awhile, if it's indeed priced well beyond where it should be, according to recent sales.  Once the seller realizes that it ain't gonna go for multiples beyond FMV, then shoot him an offer, based on your assessment of FMV.  This certainly wouldn't be low-balling.  And as Point Five said, "the worst they can do is say no or not respond."

[ThothAmon]

I say shoot an offer no matter how low. Lots of books listed for crazy prices on eBay (including some of mine) and why not, it never hurts to ask!

[Jayman]

On 5/27/2022 at 2:50 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I don't want to earn a reputation of just lowballing people

I would hate to get low-balled by Dr. Balls! 

Good advice so far in this thread. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:51 PM, fifties said:

I would suggest the best course of action might be to let the book season for awhile, if it's indeed priced well beyond where it should be, according to recent sales.  Once the seller realizes that it ain't gonna go for multiples beyond FMV, then shoot him an offer, based on your assessment of FMV.

I like that advice. I have already gone full "Old Man Internet" and started printing out hard copies of books on websites that I want and making notes.

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:34 PM, Jayman said:

I would hate to get low-balled by Dr. Balls! 

Take a deep breath and relax...I'm a doctor.

(Not a real doctor)

[rjpb]

Sounds like you've done your research. Generally I'd think a low ball offer of less than 50% of ask would be ignored, but there are those who put their books out there with a high price and an OBO option, who would probably take half of what they are asking, but are hoping someone will offer 75%, which would still be above market, but might make the buyer feel like they got a deal. If someone doesn't have an OBO option, they probably aren't going to be interesting in negotiating up from a low ball. I have folks make offers on books all the time that I don't list a best offer option on. Sometimes I might be willing to negotiate, though ideally off ebay if they can figure out I list books on IG for less, but if someone throws out a 1K offer for a book I have listed at 2K on ebay without an OBO option, I'm going to ignore that person. I don't see us arriving at a mutually agreeable price.

[zzutak]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:33 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Take a deep breath and relax.

(Not a real doctor)

That's obvious.     If you were a real doctor, you would've said, "Please turn your head and cough." 

[Robot Man]

If anybody hasn’t noticed, PCH is sizzling HOT. And pretty much impossible to replace once sold. I try to price fair and discount very little if at all. They all sell without a discount. Besides, I’m a lousy dancer. If I want it, I just bite the bullet and buy it. If not, I just move on. Always something else I can spend my money on..,

[Math Teacher]

On 5/27/2022 at 2:20 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I did shoot them an offer, and currently waiting. Which, they could respond. I had some luck in a previous offer I made on MCS, and it was very similar. I came at them at 50% of their ask (that book had very little data on it, and it is a scarce type of book that doesn't come up), and we negotiated a price I was happy with, but I'm sure they were tired of the haggling - the last offer they sent added .01 to the final dollar amount on the counteroffer.

How exactly to you make an offer to MCS? Are we talking about books that are owned by MCS, or books that are being sold on commission?

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:11 PM, Point Five said:

I wouldn't be afraid to shoot them the $1800 offer; the worst they can do is say no or not respond. Your sales data sounds reasonable, so I wouldn't call that lowballing.

I will say, there are *definitely* sellers who will price a book higher (even multiples higher) than what they expect to eventually get for it... it's kind of a ripple effect of the whole BIN/Best Offer system. Who knows if your seller is thinking that way, but there's no harm in trying.

 

It depends where you're buying. On ComicLink, people can offer half of your asking price, and there's no way to change that, so I always ask about twice what I actually want for the book because I don't want people to be able to offer me less than what I'm willing to consider.

[Robot Man]

On 5/28/2022 at 4:55 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

It depends where you're buying. On ComicLink, people can offer half of your asking price, and there's no way to change that, so I always ask about twice what I actually want for the book because I don't want people to be able to offer me less than what I'm willing to consider.

The problem with that is you are turning off a lot of people from the start. Not everyone is a half price lowballer. I see a huge price and figure we are way to far off to even make an offer. I believe in a fair offer. Everyone likes a little discount but half off a fairly priced book is crazy. If it’s not reasonably close to fair, I just pass most of the time…

Good books always sell so no need to put up with the whiners. Now, if we are talking drek… 

[D84]

You've done the research. Make the offer of FMV or maybe a little more, then walk away if they don't accept it. No matter how rare it is, there are other copies.

As for low balls, it happens to all guys as they get older. Sometimes they even hit the water in the toilet. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by D84

[Robot Man]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:26 AM, D84 said:

You've done the research. Make the offer of FMV or maybe a little more, then walk away if they don't accept it. No matter how rare it is, there are other copies.

As for low balls, it happens to all guys as they get older. Sometimes they even hit the water in the toilet. 

Exactly. Shouldn’t have to be such a long laborious process. Either you want it or you don’t. There is always something else to buy…

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:22 AM, Robot Man said:

The problem with that is you are turning off a lot of people from the start. Not everyone is a half price lowballer. I see a huge price and figure we are way to far off to even make an offer. I believe in a fair offer. Everyone likes a little discount but half off a fairly priced book is crazy. If it’s not reasonably close to fair, I just pass most of the time…

Good books always sell so no need to put up with the whiners. Now, if we are talking drek… 

No matter what someone is asking, I never offer more than I have to as an opening offer. There have been times on HA when I've offered $1,000 for books I would have happily paid $2 or $3 thousand for, so if the seller had countered with $3,000, I would have accepted—yet the sellers never even countered with any amount.

But if I make an offer on a book, and the seller rejects my offer without countering, then I won't bid on the book if it comes up for auction. I had an offer rejected on one book, and then I saw it offered at auction less than a month later, and I purposefully didn't bid. It ended up selling for substantially less that what I had offered.

[N e r V]

As a lifetime collector and a former dealer it’s all just business.

If there’s nothing wrong with someone asking an outrageous price as a seller then there should be nothing wrong with someone making an outrageous offer as a buyer. It’s pretty easy to say no to someone. I do think if you’re really interested though you should at least to try and make your case that your offer is fair and why. Otherwise I see little chance to negotiate a price.

The only exception to the above is after you get a no from the seller try not to be a pest and continue to argue your offering price. Just move on. At shows I actually had to ban people from my tables for being persistently rude. I’ve actually had people get pissed at you when they saw you sold something at or really close to your asking price too.

My rules, if you want something bad enough buy it before someone else does.

If I kind want something but I’m not going lose any sleep over it if I don’t get it I usually will stick around 5-15% off. Maybe even 20% depending on the book, dealer and how much else I’m buying from them or buy regularly from them. That’s my “half hearted I don’t really care that much” offers. 

Whatever you buy you always want to consider:

1) how bad do you want it?
2) how often is it ever available?
3) how fast (or slow) are prices moving? Even a few months can have big, big price jumps on hot books.

4) finally don’t be afraid to overpay a bit on quality books. The market will catch up and pass whatever you pay on quality books much like investing in nice beach front property.

[N e r V]

Almost forgot, if the seller happens to be named Bedrock always, always submit your lowest offer and repeatedly tell him how overpriced his books are…

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/28/2022 at 3:52 PM, N e r V said:

As a lifetime collector and a former dealer it’s all just business.

If there’s nothing wrong with someone asking an outrageous price as a seller then there should be nothing wrong with someone making an outrageous offer as a buyer. It’s pretty easy to say no to someone. I do think if you’re really interested though you should at least to try and make your case that your offer is fair and why. Otherwise I see little chance to negotiate a price.

The only exception to the above is after you get a no from the seller try not to be a pest and continue to argue your offering price. Just move on. At shows I actually had to ban people from my tables for being persistently rude. I’ve actually had people get pissed at you when they saw you sold something at or really close to your asking price too.

My rules, if you want something bad enough buy it before someone else does.

If I kind want something but I’m not going lose any sleep over it if I don’t get it I usually will stick around 5-15% off. Maybe even 20% depending on the book, dealer and how much else I’m buying from them or buy regularly from them. That’s my “half hearted I don’t really care that much” offers. 

Whatever you buy you always want to consider:

1) how bad do you want it?
2) how often is it ever available?
3) how fast (or slow) are prices moving? Even a few months can have big, big price jumps on hot books.

4) finally don’t be afraid to overpay a bit on quality books. The market will catch up and pass whatever you pay on quality books much like investing in nice beach front property.

Well. there are dealers on eBay who regularly price books at several times what they would be likely to sell for at auction.

For instance, $4,000 seems to me like a stiff price for a VF mid-run Super Duck.

I can't imagine how they ever sell anything unless they're accepting offers that are a small fraction of their asking prices.

Edited May 29, 2022 by jimbo_7071