Nominating Tghutcn to the HOS or PL 7 7

[HollyJollyOne]

I know some have been asking, this was Tghutcn's (Brady Purvis) first time in the gift exchange and raffle.

The Holiday Gift Exchange and the Holiday Raffle are two separate events held at the end of the year on these chat boards.
I have run the Gift Exchange since 2017 and @The Sledder has run the Raffle for the past few years.

Here's a little timeline of the events involved in the creation of this nomination thread:

• November 1, 2021 - Officially signs up for the gift exchange by sending me (via PM) the required form.
• November 19, 2021 - He receives his gift exchange recipient (board member @adampasz) from me via PM.
• November 22, 2021 - Asks, via PM to me, to remind his sender to wrap the gifts inside the box and not to wrap the outside of the box as his post office has been known to unwrap and open wrapped parcels.
• December 8, 2021 - Tghutcn sends me a PM stating:
  
   
• December 13, 2021 - Tghutcn agrees to participate in the raffle by posting in the raffle thread:
  
  
  
  For those who do not know, by posting in the raffle thread an agreement to participate AND offering up a named gift is considered official entry into the raffle.
• December 24, 2021 - Tghutcn acknowledges receipt of his gift exchange present from @comicginger1789
• December 26, 2021 - comicginger1789 claims the raffle prize offered up by Tghutcn 
• December 26, 2021 - Tghutcn acknowledges that comicginger1789 has claimed his raffle prize, even going so far as to state, "I’ll mark sure to put some nice stuff in there for you".
  
  
   
• December 26, 2021 - Tghutcn claims his first prize in the raffle. Prize donated by WEBHEAD
• December 26, 2021 - Tghutcn claims his second prize in the raffle. Prize donated by JazzMan
• December 26, 2021 - Tghutcn thanks Sledder for running the raffle and states, "I look forward to participating next year again if it’s on".

That is the last of the gift exchange/raffle posts that are made by Tghutcn. He continues to post, seemingly like normal, until his last board post on January 19, 2021 in the Bronze X-Men thread.

• March 31, 2022 - comicginger1789 states in the 2021 Raffle Thread that he never received his raffle prize from Tghutcn and has not heard from him (via their PM exchange) since early February, 2022).
   
• May 31, 2022 - comicginger1789 states in the 2021 Raffle thread that he has still not received his raffle prize and has not been able to contact Tghutcn.
   
• June 1, 2022 - Board member adampasz states that he never received his 2021 Holiday Gift Exchange present. This was supposed to be coming from Tghutcn.

And.... here we are.
That is all I know from what I can gather from board threads and my own PMs.
I know it's long, but I hope it helps put things into order.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by HollyJollyOne

[wombat]

Thanks @HollyJollyOne It seems even worse when you lay it out like that. Gift exchanges are supposed to be delivered by Christmas. So what was he doing? So he said he was sick but recovered by Dec 8th. He was still posting on Jan 19th. 

[Bird]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:49 PM, HollyJollyOne said:

For those who do not know, by posting in the raffle thread an agreement to participate AND offering up a named gift is considered official entry into the raffle.

yes, it is no different than not sending your part of a trade. You agree to send and you agree to receive and those two are intertwined.

[DeadOne]

On 6/5/2022 at 10:34 AM, Economy Joe said:

yes, it is no different than not sending your part of a trade. You agree to send and you agree to receive and those two are intertwined.

I agree. The raffle and gift exchange ARE board transactions. The gift exchange is a little more convoluted because it's not a one-on-one exchange, but the raffle definitely is.
I think dismissing these transgressions as "what did you expect" harms the integrity of the boards.
Definitely HOS worthy, imo.

[Bird]

perhaps whomever sent him a prize could send a letter in the mail inquiring what happened and encouraging him to come back and clear things up

[jsilverjanet]

This is insane 

look at the HOS, this is no where near the same level of as those on the list 

[seanfingh]

On 6/5/2022 at 4:58 PM, jsilverjanet said:

This is insane 

look at the HOS, this is no where near the same level of as those on the list 

Just so you don’t feel out on Revis Island, I agree with you. I don’t think it is insane to discuss it, or even suggest it, but I don’t think it warrants HoS.

[Buzzetta]

On 6/5/2022 at 4:58 PM, jsilverjanet said:

This is insane 

look at the HOS, this is no where near the same level of as those on the list 

 

On 6/5/2022 at 7:28 PM, seanfingh said:

Just so you don’t feel out on Revis Island, I agree with you. I don’t think it is insane to discuss it, or even suggest it, but I don’t think it warrants HoS.

Nor I... I did not vote for HOS.

 

[KCOComics]

I did vote PL, because I feel like people should be aware. 

But I agree, HOS seems a bit harsh given the circumstances. It is unfortunate. 

[mattn792]

On 6/5/2022 at 3:58 PM, jsilverjanet said:

This is insane 

look at the HOS, this is no where near the same level of as those on the list 

 

On 6/5/2022 at 6:28 PM, seanfingh said:

Just so you don’t feel out on Revis Island, I agree with you. I don’t think it is insane to discuss it, or even suggest it, but I don’t think it warrants HoS.

Just for some comic relief - I forgot I hadn't clicked into the NFL thread, saw these two comments, and immediately thought you two were debating about Darrelle Revis getting into the Hall of Fame.

[Red84]

If this were a regular transaction I would have voted for PL. But I consider taking advantage of holiday threads and board generosity to be an aggravating factor. That's why I voted HOS. I completely understand those who would add him only to the PL.

[crassus]

I have not voted yet, I'm now on the fence between "neither" and PL, but one problem I perceive with holding the raffle part to the PL is that within the framework of the market place rules raffles are not permitted (rule 15). To be clear, I'm not suggesting you can't have raffles outside the marketplace, I'm just wondering how to reconcile that with putting somebody on the PL for, in part, not honouring a raffle....I think it would be more plausible to put them on the PL solely for the gift exchange....but this is part of the complication of using tools designed for a commercial marketplace. 

I have a bunch of other reservations too, but I'm not looking to start a big argument, just concerned we are opening the door here to repurposing the marketplace rules to unintended consequences...

[Bird]

the lists are not just for the marketplace, but for any place that two boardies have had a transaction

[crassus]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:35 AM, Economy Joe said:

the lists are not just for the marketplace, but for any place that two boardies have had a transaction

Yes absolutely (and I understand that a transaction off the Boards does not have to follow Boards' rules to be a legit transaction)...yet by this logic the Gift Exchange and the Raffle are transactions, which is fine, except that both of these do take place on the Boards, so if the Raffle is a Boards' transaction then insofar as the remedy appealed to is the PL, it has to be reconciled with the marketplace rules...no?

[Bird]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:42 AM, crassus said:

it has to be reconciled with the marketplace rules...no?

no

if it can be off the boards, then it can be outside the marketplace as well

no need to try to reconcile anything in my opinion

[wombat]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:50 AM, Economy Joe said:

no

if it can be off the boards, then it can be outside the marketplace as well

no need to try to reconcile anything in my opinion

Agreed. It can be a PM between two members that don't adhere to market place rules. I see no need to reconcile the raffle issue. 

[crassus]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:50 AM, Economy Joe said:

no

if it can be off the boards, then it can be outside the marketplace as well

no need to try to reconcile anything in my opinion

Yes I get that point, presumably transactions are going on all the time in PM and they are by definition outside the marketplace. Although I guess the real problem I'm having is why raffles would be bad for marketplace transactions proper, but good for transactions elsewhere on the Boards...which is I realize a separate question....so can I assume that Mystery Boxes are also good elsewhere on the Boards as transactions? I had always thought, I guess wrongly, that Admin had come down on Mystery Boxes and Raffles in the marketplace because there was some negative consequence or conflict with having them, but I guess more correctly they prohibited them because they were problematic only for the marketplace specifically, and not generally...although I'm still having a hard time computing...

[seanfingh]

I just want to say that it is nice to have a wide variety of opinions, and significant differences of opinion, and maintain civil discourse. I had almost forgotten what that is like.

[DeadOne]

The PL currently has the following notation (highlighted in red in the quote below):

On 3/22/2021 at 1:52 PM, crassus said:

THE PROBATION LIST

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time. Those with an "Off-Board" notation indicate the failed transaction occurred outside of the CGC Message Boards.

What if a similar notation is created for the Gift Exchange/Raffle?

[crassus]

On 6/6/2022 at 1:39 PM, DeadOne said:

The PL currently has the following notation (highlighted in red in the quote below):

On 3/22/2021 at 1:52 PM, crassus said:

THE PROBATION LIST

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time. Those with an "Off-Board" notation indicate the failed transaction occurred outside of the CGC Message Boards.

What if a similar notation is created for the Gift Exchange/Raffle?

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think that would be necessary, a pretty strong case can be made that there is no real difference between the obligations assumed in the GE/Raffle threads and those in the Marketplace, at the end of the day there are posted rules for each, and if you decide to participate you will be held to those rules and each to their obligations. So if it turns out the vote is for PL, my  is that it would just be simpler to list it like all the rest.

Part of my difficulty has been that I just deeply associate "gift giving" and "business" as two separate things, so I have been having an oil versus water kind of problem putting them through the same strainer. I do though appreciate the other point of view, that the GE/Raffle are both official, public, Boards community events, and if you participate you are making a pledge to see it through as a member of that community.