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Which is the bigger Bronze Age key in terms of value and historical significance: Superman v. Spider-Man or Superman v. Muhammad Ali?
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Started by bronze johnny,

Bigger Bronze Age Key  

47 members have voted

  1. 1. Bigger Bronze Age key: Superman v. Spider-Man or Superman v. Muhammad Ali?

    • Superman v. Spider-Man
      29
    • Superman v. Muhammad Ali
      16
    • Not sure/don’t know
      2

35 posts in this topic

Brock

Brock

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Posted (edited)

In my schoolyard circles, we had plenty of Superman vs. debates… Superman vs. Dracula, Superman vs. Shazam, Superman vs. Hulk, Superman vs. Thor, etc. but we never debated Superman vs. Spider-Man. In fact, when the book came out the whole DC/Marvel was exciting, but our general reaction was “WTF?” There was no way, in our minds, that this was a fight worth thinking about.

Heat vision? It’s over.

Super speed? It’s over.

Fly into space where you don’t have to breathe? It’s over.

When it came to Supes vs. Ali, though, they took this whole idea and turned it on its head… the story worked precisely because Superman gave up his powers to have a fair fight - and Ali won. On my schoolyard, at least, this made it a much bigger deal.

As an aside, @bronze johnny in an earlier post mentioned Star Wars vs. Star Trek… while we’re talking my schoolyard, let me point out that Star Trek was for old people, and the real action was in Star Wars vs. Battlestar Galactica.

 

Edited by Brock
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bronze johnny

bronze johnny

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On 6/19/2022 at 9:30 PM, Brock said:

In my schoolyard circles, we had plenty of Superman vs. debates… Superman vs. Dracula, Superman vs. Shazam, Superman vs. Hulk, Superman vs. Thor, etc. but we never debated Superman vs. Spider-Man. In fact, when the book came out the whole DC/Marvel was exciting, but our general reaction was “WTF?” There was no way, in our minds, that this was a fight worth thinking about.

Heat vision? It’s over.

Super speed? It’s over.

Fly into space where you don’t have to breathe? It’s over.

When it came to Supes vs. Ali, though, they took this whole idea and turned it on its head… the story worked precisely because Superman gave up his powers to have a fair fight - and Ali won. On my schoolyard, at least, this made it a much bigger deal.

As an aside, @bronze johnny in an earlier post mentioned Star Wars vs. Star Trek… while we’re talking my schoolyard, let me point out that Star Trek was for old people, and the real action was in Star Wars vs. Battlestar Galactica.

 

Galactica v. Star Wars was another debate but we didn’t see that until later in the decade so Star Trek was all there was around and for those of us with parents who liked it, we followed and it was on all the time in syndication. As afar as Supes v. Spidey, we always knew the Man of Steel had it all but Spidey had a knack for coming out ahead against villians who were stronger and/or has powers he lacked, and the hope for us Marvel guys was for him to find a way to defeat Superman no matter the outcome of the treasury story. Your point about Supes v Ali is another reason why it’s a story that worked since there was no way Supes would get a scratch otherwise. Interestingly, we always face Supes the crown when it came to his taking on the Hulk and other Marvel characters. Spidey was special however!

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Readcomix

Readcomix

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I think both the Superman vs Shazam and Superman vs Wonder Woman treasury-size books were better reads than either of these. They don’t have the crossover significance, of course, so not relevant to OP’s question, just kind of related to where the conversation has gone.

Also as an aside, it has no character crossovers component, but the Wizard of Oz adaptation predates Supes vs Spidey as a Marvel/DC collaboration.

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Zonker

Zonker

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I'm wondering if the opinion of Supes vs. Spidey as the better read has more to do with it being published 2 years earlier, and so us old-timers were still pre-teens when it was published, instead of oh-so-sophisticated 14-year-olds at the time of publication of the Ali book?  I haven't completely re-read either book in years, but I've sold a few, and when snapping pictures of the interior pages it seems like the Ali book has some interesting touches, such as Ali's reaction to Superman being knocked out cold on his feet, still standing.  I do remember when I first read it in 1978, it made me an Ali fan for the first time.  At that age I wasn't able to get the fact that Ali's braggadocio was his act, not all of who he was, and reading this story humanized him for me for the first time.

That said, the Supes vs. Spidey book still wins.  Because history.

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jcjames

jcjames

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On 6/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, Brock said:

No, but he was the greatest... :baiting:

He also won the title back a few months after the books was published.

That was a shady situation IMO.

Boxing is a dirty sport, and I think backroom deals let Ali coast and give up the title to Spinks (only his 8th fight as a pro) who Ali KNEW he could beat with one arm tied behind his back, just so that Ali could make history and win the Heavyweight title for an unprecedented third time rather than face Kenny Norton again.

Spinks' toughest opponent before Ali was a punching-bag named Scott LeDoux that he fought to a draw.

I remember watching that fight - no WAY Spinks beats Ali even on Ali's worst day.

After the immediate rematch that Ali easily won, Ali retired (as planned IMO) as the only Heavyweight to win the title three times. Ali was the greatest in the ring, but his handlers were also the greatest outside the ring in the dirtiest sport around.

YMMV.   

Edited by jcjames
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shadroch

shadroch

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On 6/20/2022 at 1:22 PM, jcjames said:

That was a shady situation IMO.

Boxing is a dirty sport, and I think backroom deals let Ali coast and give up the title to Spinks (only his 8th fight as a pro) who Ali KNEW he could beat with one arm tied behind his back, just so that Ali could make history and win the Heavyweight title for an unprecedented third time rather than face Kenny Norton again.

Spinks' toughest opponent before Ali was a punching-bag named Scott LeDoux that he fought to a draw.

I remember watching that fight - no WAY Spinks beats Ali even on Ali's worst day.

After the immediate rematch that Ali easily won, Ali retired (as planned IMO) as the only Heavyweight to win the title three times. Ali was the greatest in the ring, but his handlers were also the greatest outside the ring in the dirtiest sport around.

YMMV.   

I don't think it was an industry wide conspiracy but Ali certainly set it up so he could retire as the only three time champion.  Why, I never understood. He also was the first man to lose the title twice.  I was in New Orleans for the fight, and Leon was out on Boubon Street every night, along with his bigger than life bodyguard, Mister T.

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bronze johnny

bronze johnny

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One factor I can’t figure in assessing the bigger of the two books is scarcity in high grade. My guess is Supes v. Ali is the scarcer book because of the black cover and how they are usually more difficult to find in high grade. Guess this would be truer for treasury-sized behemoths.

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