Decided to Quit Commissions from Artists… 1 1

[vodou]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Race said:

If you have that many requests and people are offering you a 100% markup to fulfill a request, then the solution is to raise prices accordingly out of respect for the artist's worth.

On 7/17/2022 at 10:52 AM, grapeape said:

No offense Race but I think Felix has this figured out perfectly. 

@grapeape I agree. Perhaps this is not Felix's reasoning but mine (in his shoes) would be: the value of the oversell hype is considerably greater than trying to close the gap too much on "better" matching demand to supply by raising the price. That said...I could easily see the next time prices moving up some, maybe $650? That wouldn't notably quell oversell hype (imo) but would generate another $1500 in gross.

[Guest Race]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:52 AM, grapeape said:

No offense Race but I think Felix has this figured out perfectly. 

I wonder how the artist feels, considering he could do the same amount of work for twice the money. If you have 132 people already willing to pay $500 for a commission, price is probably no object for most of them. This is essentially how Disney World, car dealers, and everyone else with a highly sought after asset is trying to handle excess demand -- they know if you can already afford a $45,000 Bronco, asking another $5,000 isn't going to hurt their sales.

I am not criticizing Felix, just the idea that art of any kind is some sort of democracy where everyone gets what they want at the price they want whenever they want it. To me it is fine to charge whatever the market will bear.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Race

[Monstertruck97]

The way it's set up now, it's like several hundred people all waiting at roughly the exact same time and looking at their clock and counting off the seconds to make claim and everyone assuming they must be the winner because they sent their claim out at 3:00:00.

What you have is a crashed site and/or hundreds of e-mails (that need to be addressed personally) and over a 100 disappointed non-winners who lost out because they didn't time it correctly. 

Somehow to me there has to be a better way.  

One of my favorite artists did the "Ten spots open, claim at 3 P.M (not a second before) and changed it to "Send request from 3:00-3:10" and all those who requested, a lottery is done and winners awarded that way which I think is far more fair, even if it means a bigger pool. 

650 won't shorten the pool.

A grand may.

[Rick2you2]

On 7/17/2022 at 12:19 PM, Race said:

I wonder how the artist feels, considering he could do the same amount of work for twice the money. If you have 132 people already willing to pay $500 for a commission, price is probably no object for most of them. This is essentially how Disney World, car dealers, and everyone else with a highly sought after asset is trying to handle excess demand -- they know if you can already afford a $45,000 Bronco, asking another $5,000 isn't going to hurt their sales.

I am not criticizing Felix, just the idea that art of any kind is some sort of democracy where everyone gets what they want at the price they want whenever they want it. To me it is fine to charge whatever the market will bear.

Managing demand is tricky. Instead of stimulating sales, charging too little can create the impression that something isn’t worth it, thereby reducing demand. Charging a lot sometimes boosts sales, like with certain high end consumer goods (Birkin bags may be an example). Demand for Bruce Timm pieces seems to have, if anything, gone up with his prices. There are also some wonderful artists who simply aren’t doing a high profile book and can’t command high prices. And, there are scribbles by well know artists which sell for a lot.

If what is being done now is working, then I’d let it ride until it stops. Why risk a good thing?

[Michaeld]

I gave up on Art Adams. Many years ago I was at a Wonder-Con (I think it was Wonder-Con) and asked him what was the best way to get a commission. He asked if I was going to SDCC and when I told him yes he instructed me to be at his table first thing Wednesday. Myself and one other guy was there when he arrived and he told me he wouldn't have time for a commission. Before he even sat at his table in the very first hour of the very first day of SDCC he already had a list of 15 people. Before he even reached his table. That was it for me.

[Will_K]

On 7/17/2022 at 12:19 PM, Race said:

I am not criticizing Felix, just the idea that art of any kind is some sort of democracy where everyone gets what they want at the price they want whenever they want it. To me it is fine to charge whatever the market will bear.

I'd assume Felix and his clients discuss pricing, drops and commission opportunities every once in a while.  Maybe not as a group but SDCC is a good time to do that among themselves.  I assume 10 commission slots is what the artists feel they can handle.  Going to 20 slots out of 132 requests (even at higher pricing) might make for some happier collectors but tell that to the 112 disappointed ones.  I think Felix is more transparent than collectors deserve. 

[SuperBird]

On 7/16/2022 at 9:13 PM, Nexus said:

On Wednesday, I opened up Daniel Warren Johnson's sketch list to my newsletter subscribers. There were 10 spots available at $500 each for a 6X9 sketch. The first 10 people to submit their request through the site would make the list.

I have to manually disable the listing on my site in order to close the opportunity. I tried to do it as quickly as I could, but the site was running slow, even on the backend. It took me one minute from the listing going live to close it.

In that single minute, we received 132 unique requests. For 10 spots. We actually received a much higher number of total requests, if we would include people who submitted their request multiple times. In terms of individual unique requests, though, it was 132. I counted. Bill Cox can verify. Who knows how much higher that number would have been if I had waited longer to close the listing?

All to illustrate the difficulty in getting a sketch from DWJ. And the difficulty for us in making everyone happy.

Will future commission opportunities be handled this way (through the website) as opposed to the previous way of sending out emails to your mailing list and taking comissions that way? 

 

[Michael Browning]

I recently reached out to an artist who is in his 90s to inquire about a commission. He didn’t answer me, but about two weeks later, his agent, someone I’ve never heard of, announced the artist was now accepting commissions and to direct message the agent as soon as possible to get in line. I did just that.

I asked the cost for a commission of a character the artist is most famous for drawing and the agent said $850 shipped and, if I wanted it, I’d need to send the cash ASAP and the artist would begin work on it the next morning. I asked if that was a deposit or the full amount and he said it was the entire amount at once. I asked what kind of guarantee there was in case the artist couldn’t finish the commission and the agent said there was none. If I sent the cash that night and the artist died before he drew the commission, I lost all my cash and wouldn’t get it back.

I realized I’m fine without a commission by that artist and went to bed knowing my money was safe with me.

[modelmaker]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:08 AM, Michael Browning said:

I recently reached out to an artist who is in his 90s to inquire about a commission. He didn’t answer me, but about two weeks later, his agent, someone I’ve never heard of, announced the artist was now accepting commissions and to direct message the agent as soon as possible to get in line. I did just that.

I asked the cost for a commission of a character the artist is most famous for drawing and the agent said $850 shipped and, if I wanted it, I’d need to send the cash ASAP and the artist would begin work on it the next morning. I asked if that was a deposit or the full amount and he said it was the entire amount at once. I asked what kind of guarantee there was in case the artist couldn’t finish the commission and the agent said there was none. If I sent the cash that night and the artist died before he drew the commission, I lost all my cash and wouldn’t get it back.

I realized I’m fine without a commission by that artist and went to bed knowing my money was safe with me.

Good call Mike.  Losing out on the money if the artist passed away is one thing, but I highly doubt that the artist has the eyesight, manual dexterity, and 'perfectionistic' mindset, that he had in his prime.  I'm positive the fine and delicate linework would be long gone.  I would bet that the drawing you would receive would be a shadow of his former glory.  So in a way, you would have most likely wasted your money either way.  I give you exhibit A:

Stan Lee signing in his prime:


Stan Lee signing when he was 94:


And though I can't find an image to show you, I've personally seen CGC SS slabs (done in 2017 to 2018) where Stan's signature literally was nothing more than a black blob where you could not make out a single letter, or where his signature looked like the word, 'Stale' or 'Stole'.   

[Monstertruck97]

On 7/20/2022 at 6:08 AM, Michael Browning said:

I recently reached out to an artist who is in his 90s to inquire about a commission. He didn’t answer me, but about two weeks later, his agent, someone I’ve never heard of, announced the artist was now accepting commissions and to direct message the agent as soon as possible to get in line. I did just that.

I asked the cost for a commission of a character the artist is most famous for drawing and the agent said $850 shipped and, if I wanted it, I’d need to send the cash ASAP and the artist would begin work on it the next morning. I asked if that was a deposit or the full amount and he said it was the entire amount at once. I asked what kind of guarantee there was in case the artist couldn’t finish the commission and the agent said there was none. If I sent the cash that night and the artist died before he drew the commission, I lost all my cash and wouldn’t get it back.

I realized I’m fine without a commission by that artist and went to bed knowing my money was safe with me.

Was it Giella? I got something similar from Joe's "guy".

On 7/20/2022 at 8:35 PM, modelmaker said:

Good call Mike.  Losing out on the money if the artist passed away is one thing, but I highly doubt that the artist has the eyesight, manual dexterity, and 'perfectionistic' mindset, that he had in his prime.  I'm positive the fine and delicate linework would be long gone.  I would bet that the drawing you would receive would be a shadow of his former glory.  So in a way, you would have most likely wasted your money either way.  I give you exhibit A:

Stan Lee signing in his prime:


Stan Lee signing when he was 94:


And though I can't find an image to show you, I've personally seen CGC SS slabs (done in 2017 to 2018) where Stan's signature literally was nothing more than a black blob where you could not make out a single letter, or where his signature looked like the word, 'Stale' or 'Stole'.   

Seen (and own) FAR worse than "in his 90's Stan". 

[Ecclectica]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:35 AM, modelmaker said:

Stan Lee signing in his prime:

Ouch !

For one second, I thought somebody had stolen my card from my collection, and I rushed to check if it was always here ! It is.  

I have exactly the same card, coming from an UKCAC edition in the 90's (probably the 1992 or 1993 one, don't remember)

Edited July 21, 2022 by Ecclectica

[Michael Browning]

No, it wasn’t Joe Giella.

[ExNihilo]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:58 PM, Michaeld said:

I gave up on Art Adams. Many years ago I was at a Wonder-Con (I think it was Wonder-Con) and asked him what was the best way to get a commission. He asked if I was going to SDCC and when I told him yes he instructed me to be at his table first thing Wednesday. Myself and one other guy was there when he arrived and he told me he wouldn't have time for a commission. Before he even sat at his table in the very first hour of the very first day of SDCC he already had a list of 15 people. Before he even reached his table. That was it for me.

I don't quite understand this.  An artist showcased a piece recently and said it would be available at SDCC.  I emailed to inquire about the price and forms of payment they accept and was told the piece had already sold.  I can assume why they did that (someone guaranteeing buying it vs bringing it to the show and risking no one in attendance wanting the piece).  But if you're going to make the art available online on a first come, first serve basis, then just say so.  It almost makes me wonder if someone offered a price greater than what the artist had originally planned to sell it for and just accepted the higher offer.  I'm not bothered if an artist takes the highest price because they should 100% be paid what they're worth, but it's the fact that you get peoples hopes up.  And in your particular case, also wasted your time as I'm sure there were other creator tables you probably would have prioritized.

[Rick2you2]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:04 PM, ExNihilo said:

I don't quite understand this.  An artist showcased a piece recently and said it would be available at SDCC.  I emailed to inquire about the price and forms of payment they accept and was told the piece had already sold.  I can assume why they did that (someone guaranteeing buying it vs bringing it to the show and risking no one in attendance wanting the piece).  But if you're going to make the art available online on a first come, first serve basis, then just say so.  It almost makes me wonder if someone offered a price greater than what the artist had originally planned to sell it for and just accepted the higher offer.  I'm not bothered if an artist takes the highest price because they should 100% be paid what they're worth, but it's the fact that you get peoples hopes up.  And in your particular case, also wasted your time as I'm sure there were other creator tables you probably would have prioritized.

The moral of the story is….

[Jeffery Harnett]

Dear Monstertruck97 ,

When did you reach out to Joe Giella's rep ? That response was never given as I know because I rep him.

 

Jeff

[Jeremy_S]

On 7/17/2022 at 5:58 PM, Michaeld said:

I gave up on Art Adams. Many years ago I was at a Wonder-Con (I think it was Wonder-Con) and asked him what was the best way to get a commission. He asked if I was going to SDCC and when I told him yes he instructed me to be at his table first thing Wednesday. Myself and one other guy was there when he arrived and he told me he wouldn't have time for a commission. Before he even sat at his table in the very first hour of the very first day of SDCC he already had a list of 15 people. Before he even reached his table. That was it for me.

And I think that's where the majority of the frustration comes from - you follow the recommendation/advice the artist gives you, jump through the hoops, and there's still 20 people that beat you to the list. Rinse and repeat that often enough, and it's easy to get dejected. Particularly when it's supposed to be a fun hobby you (hopefully) seek enjoyment from. 

 

Years ago, one of the happiest days was when I finally made peace with the fact that a large part of the OA commission game simply comes down to luck. Right place, right time, artist is in the right mood, right blend of circumstances, etc... Hell one of my favorite commissions I got from an artist because he was (as I later found out) going through a divorce and needed the money, so he quietly opened up three commission spots. I inquired on the right week, we had a nice and friendly chat back and forth via email, and that was that. There's more to the story later on when it came time for delivery, but it all worked out in the end. 

Art is going to be at C2E2 next weekend. When I walk by his table, I'll give him a look that says "you know what you did to Michael D. Oh, you know" for you!

[comix4fun]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:35 PM, modelmaker said:

Good call Mike.  Losing out on the money if the artist passed away is one thing, but I highly doubt that the artist has the eyesight, manual dexterity, and 'perfectionistic' mindset, that he had in his prime.  I'm positive the fine and delicate linework would be long gone.  I would bet that the drawing you would receive would be a shadow of his former glory.  So in a way, you would have most likely wasted your money either way.  


 

For every sloppy Stan Lee sig I can point to dozens of Joe Sinnott, Ramona Fradon, and several others doing great work and providing great commissions well into their 80's and 90's. even Jon Romita did a piece for me at 82 that was as good as anything he did at 42.
Sinnott was laser precise through the entirety of his 80's especially. 

You're right to have questions about quality of the commission and it's wise to see what else the artist is producing now, but a lot of folks going for commission from artists in their 80's and 90's probably know what they're getting and why they sought out the commission...like when the Mets traded for Willie Mays in '72. They knew they weren't getting the MVP Mays. 
 

Edited July 27, 2022 by comix4fun

[HighRadArt]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:58 PM, Michaeld said:

I gave up on Art Adams. Many years ago I was at a Wonder-Con (I think it was Wonder-Con) and asked him what was the best way to get a commission. He asked if I was going to SDCC and when I told him yes he instructed me to be at his table first thing Wednesday. Myself and one other guy was there when he arrived and he told me he wouldn't have time for a commission. Before he even sat at his table in the very first hour of the very first day of SDCC he already had a list of 15 people. Before he even reached his table. That was it for me.

I guess I was lucky to get on Art Adams list at ECCC and actually get a sketch from him.  I kept going back to his table and bugging him and he assured me he would get it done.  It took him 3 days and someone I knew picking up the piece at his hotel room but I got it.  It was worth it and it's in my sig line.  

[Monstertruck97]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:32 PM, Jeffery Harnett said:

Dear Monstertruck97 ,

When did you reach out to Joe Giella's rep ? That response was never given as I know because I rep him.

 

Jeff

I wrote Joe a letter a year ago and included a few cards which he so graciously signed for me. I noted in the letter about possibly getting a commission from him in the future. About two weeks later, I received a letter from someone claiming to be Joe's rep (perhaps it was you, not sure) with handwritten contact information noting that if I wanted something done by him to go through them.

[Jeffery Harnett]

On 7/27/2022 at 8:01 PM, Monstertruck97 said:

I wrote Joe a letter a year ago and included a few cards which he so graciously signed for me. I noted in the letter about possibly getting a commission from him in the future. About two weeks later, I received a letter from someone claiming to be Joe's rep (perhaps it was you, not sure) with handwritten contact information noting that if I wanted something done by him to go through them.

You stated that the response ("got something similar from Joe's "guy") was similar to Michael Browning's comments about not getting his monies back if any harm should come to the artist. Also to send the money ASAP,etc.. You said you received something back saying to go through the rep which has nothing to do with any policy demands.

 My policy has Always been we accept no money up front and Only when the collector is Next do I ask for full payment. When that payment is received Joe actually starts on that Illustration so they get it in a timely manner. If for Any reason the request was not met we would refund all monies. I have been doing this for years and the collector's who have dealt with us have been very happy and many came back for more. I am a collector myself so I deal with other collector's like I would hope to be.

I just did not want to be lumped in with those sort of conditions which we do not do. Hope you can understand my concern in this matter.