Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1950's. (1957) Jack Kirby's Marvel Age has already begun! 2 2

[Prince Namor]

On 7/20/2022 at 11:37 AM, sfcityduck said:

So much is wrong with this "history" it is astounding!  You have turned the real facts on their head.

1957 was actually the year of the legendary "Atlas implosion" caused by Martin Goodman's bad distributor deals. The implosion required Atlas to basically fire all of its creative talent. The did not "lose" those artists when the artists "departed". They were just not hired by Atlas anymore (remember those artists were independent contractors) because Atlas was scrambling to cut costs due to a lack of revenue resulting from being able to publish fewer comics.

DUH. It hadn't happened yet. In interviews with Al Jaffe, he stated (as well as Will Elder in an interview stating the same thing about Jaffee), that Jaffee LEFT to go to work for Mad. Considering his last story was released in January of 1957, he would have finished it in September/October of 1956. He left BEFORE the implosion.

Atlas released 41 titles to the newsstand in January of 1957. FORTY ONE. They had not 'imploded' yet. 

Atlas released 41 titles to the newsstand in February of 1957. FORTY ONE. They had not 'imploded' yet. 

Atlas released 35 titles to the newsstand in March of 1957. THIRTY FIVE. They had not 'imploded' yet. 

Atlas released 39 titles to the newsstand in April of 1957. THIRTY NINE. They had not 'imploded' yet. 

Atlas released 23 titles to the newsstand in May of 1957. So odds are... they knew something was up at this point. That would've put it at the end of February, beginning of March.

13 titles in June of 1957. The implosion has fully begun.

8 in July. 

Lots of talent WALKED before then.

Jack Davis left BEFORE the implosion. He was already gone.

Wally Wood left BEFORE the implosion. He was already gone.

Al Feldstein lasted one issue. He was already gone. 

Al Jaffee left BEFORE the implosion. He was already gone.

John Severin SAYS he left on his own, even though there's work of his into the implosion (probably inventory work). 

The guys who got FIRED, talk very openly about it in interviews vs the ones who left on their own. 

And according to John Severin, not all of them were independent contractors. He said many people there were on salary including himself.  

 

So we're not there in the story yet. But thanks for staying glued to the edge of your seat over my exciting History of Comics!

You may learn a few things!

[Prince Namor]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:20 AM, AJD said:

I'd never noticed these threads before - thank you for putting the time in to produce them. I'm getting to read stuff I've never dipped into.

Glad your enjoying it!

[Prince Namor]

On 7/20/2022 at 11:42 AM, sfcityduck said:

Aside from the copyright violations (hint: Yellow Claw, Challengers, Fighting American, Atlas books etc. are all available in archive formats), this thread is little more than inaccurate propaganda aimed at the single-minded goal of glorifying Kirby to a degree that puts even Stan Lee's over the top hype to shame. I really hope that no one views the "history" being told here seriously. It is far from fair or balanced.

The work speaks for itself. Stan was a hack.

Kirby and Ditko were creating out of this world ideas.

It shows us exactly who the creative force was behind Marvel's Silver Age. 

Stayed tuned for more!

[Prince Namor]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:34 AM, shadroch said:

Perhaps it is just me, but six threads on the subject  since June 15th seems obsessive.

And you've been here for every one of them. Glad you're enjoying it!

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1957

For February Stan Lee wrote:

Millie the Model #79 with Dan DeCarlo art 

A Date with Millie #6 with Dan DeCarlo art 

The Adventures of Homer the Ghost #1 with Dan DeCarlo art

Showgirls #1 with Dan DeCarlo art 

Wyatt Earp #11 - with Joe Maneely

Kid Slade Gunfighter #8 - one Western filler story with Dick Ayers

Ringo Kid #18 - one Western filler story with George Tuska

Kid Colt Outlaw #72 - one Western filler story with Mort Drucker

Two Gun Kid #37 - one Western filler story with George Tuska

 

Atlas released TWO #1's in February, a pretty good sign they had no idea of the impending disaster on the way. One was a retread of their Casper rip off, and the other was a new packaging for Sherry the Showgirl.... and featuring basically the same stories for Millie, Pearl, Sherry and Chili...

[shadroch]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:33 PM, Prince Namor said:

And you've been here for every one of them. Glad you're enjoying it!

 

It's not "The Man In The High Castle" good, but I do enjoy alt-history as much as anyone.   

[Prince Namor]

Another artist who's last work we'd see for Atlas was Robert Q. Sale. He'd go into commercial art for the remainder of his career. 

He worked in a variety of genre's for Atlas in the 50's but is best known for Combat Casey, who, before the Comics Code came was maybe one of Atlas' most violent war comics... (from the pre-Code first issue, released Sept of 1952). His art changed after the Code and became more watered down, but I like the raw look of these pre-Code issues!

[Prince Namor]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:47 PM, shadroch said:

It's not "The Man In The High Castle" good, but I do enjoy alt-history as much as anyone.   

Alt-history? The work speaks for itself. 

I'm entitled to my educated opinions on it, the same as you're entitled to your Stan Lee approved regurgitated opinions on it. 

[Prince Namor]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:37 AM, sfcityduck said:

Worth noting that Showcase 6 & 7 ... blah blah blah

It was Flash which broke the mold by starting a new universe of DC superhero revivals.

Challengers of the Unknown had its own title TEN MONTHS before the Flash did. 

Even though, Flash appeared in Showcase FOUR MONTHS before the Challengers did (it was bi-monthly). 

In an era of newsstand sales meaning everything, that says it all. 

[Prince Namor]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:19 AM, Zonker said:

These are some really interesting Ditko pages.  Though the faces do look Ditko-esque, and he clearly signed this work as his, most of the rest of it looks completely different than his immediately-following Charlton work that you posted later in the thread.  The Charlton pages are clearly Silver Age Ditko, but here he is using a lot more shading, more detailed backgrounds, drawing more as an illustrator than as a cartoonist.  I'm not using cartoonist as a pejorative at all, many of comics' greatest talents were cartoonists rather than conventional illustrators.  But it makes me wonder if this was an inventory story completed even earlier in his career, before he leaned out his style in order to work more quickly and maximize his output?

Yep, that is a possibility. Or maybe someone inked him that we don't know about? Either way it definitely looks different...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1957

For February Steve Ditko did some work in Charlton's attempt at copying Mad (rebooted here a second time)... From Here to Insanity #1 (Bob McCartney cover)

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1957

From Here to Insanity #1 

And we even got some Basil Wolverton work in it...

[Prince Namor]

I'm not sure who Bob McCartney is, but... he kinda gives it a Jack Davis/Bill Ward feel... anyone know anything about this guy?

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1957

Also for Charlton, Ditko having left on his OWN before the implosion, he did the cover and 4 stories for Mysteries of Unexplored Worlds #3...

Story ONE

Edited July 20, 2022 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1957

Mysteries of Unexplored Worlds #3 - Steve Ditko

Story TWO

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1957

Mysteries of Unexplored Worlds #3 - Steve Ditko

Story THREE

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1957

Mysteries of Unexplored Worlds #3 - Steve Ditko

Story FOUR

[sfcityduck]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:28 PM, Prince Namor said:

DUH. It hadn't happened yet. In interviews with Al Jaffe, he stated (as well as Will Elder in an interview stating the same thing about Jaffee), that Jaffee LEFT to go to work for Mad. Considering his last story was released in January of 1957, he would have finished it in September/October of 1956. He left BEFORE the implosion.

 

Saying Al Jaffe left in 1956 before the implosion does not support your assertion that: "This [1957] would be the year that Atlas would lose many of the artist and writers who helped keep it together," an assertion you support by citing to the example of Al Jaffe. Instead, that Al Jaffe left in 1956 rebuts your assertion when coupled with your stats that show Atlas was going strong until they got hit with the title limitations in mid-1957. 

Simply put, the Atlas implosion was due to a bad distributor deal, not bad relationships with creators.

Why not just admit that? 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Rip]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:07 PM, Prince Namor said:

I'm not sure who Bob McCartney is, but... he kinda gives it a Jack Davis/Bill Ward feel... anyone know anything about this guy?

Bill Ward also did art under the name McCartney. Thank you for sharing!

Edited July 20, 2022 by Rip

[sfcityduck]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:59 PM, Prince Namor said:

Challengers of the Unknown had its own title TEN MONTHS before the Flash did. 

Even though, Flash appeared in Showcase FOUR MONTHS before the Challengers did (it was bi-monthly). 

In an era of newsstand sales meaning everything, that says it all. 

Lois Lane had its own title before Challengers, based on a tryout of only two issues instead of four.  What's this prove about the birth of the Silver Age?  Nothing.

Because Lois Lane was just another Superman title like Superboy and Jimmy Olson, and Challengers was just another genre title.

But Flash was the first successful revival of a golden age DC superhero. Flash led to Green Lantern, etc. Challengers weren't an inspiration for DC superhero revivals for the simple reason that Challengers weren't a DC superhero book. They were just another genre book like My Greatest Adventure, Strange Adventures, Mystery in Space, Tales of the Unexpected, etc.  The first no. 1 after Challengers 1 was Charlie Chan.