ASM 238 tatooz 2 2

[lostboys]

So I'm shopping around for a copy in the 8.0 range and I'm a bit shocked at how much cheaper the "no tatooz" copies are.

Is it mostly about folks wanting that blue label? 

Are there other books put there like ASM 238 in this regard?

What's your opinion? Did you need the tatooz to be satisfied when you bought your copy?

 

[oldmilwaukee6er]

I personally would want the book complete with the tattoos, as originally issued.

I want my Bronze withe the marvel value stamps and my Modern with their digital downloads intact. 

[MattTheDuck]

FF #252 is another issue that has the Tatooz - or doesn't.  I also prefer my books complete.

[Lightning55]

There probably is too much emphasis on the insert.  If it was included in a polybag, it would be removed and the book graded, no big deal.  Without the insert, it looks like any regular comic book, so unless you knew it was originally there, you would not panic and say "Oh no, my comic is missing its advertising insert!"

I personally don't think it matters, but the market seems to see it differently.  As the price difference between the 2 versions increases, the paranoia of buying the "wrong copy" increases.

Years ago, Overstreet tried to give them the same value, Tatooz or no Tatooz.  Put one price entry, and mentioned that it should be the same because a replacement Tatooz could be found in other issues.  I think they were swayed to do this because of popular demand.  The "it doesn't matter" crowd was arguing louder than the "it does matter" crowd.  As the market continued to bear out the different values, Overstreet eventually pivoted back to giving them different values in the guide, with a note that Tatooz from other comics were being inserted back into 238s to increase the value. 

As grading in general grew in the hobby, the green Qualified label and the prominent notation about the Missing Tatooz made the divide even wider.

I'm not even sure if all 238's were originally manufactured with Tatooz.  Overstreet says that Canadian Price Variants did not contain Tatooz.  I read somewhere, can't remember where or when, that possibly not all Newsstand issues had them.  Maybe someone knows the factual story about these amazing Tatooz.  It's probably been discussed here over the years in other threads.

[lostboys]

When the tats are removed, is there a stub left behind?

[F For Fake]

On 7/21/2022 at 1:00 PM, Lightning55 said:

There probably is too much emphasis on the insert.  If it was included in a polybag, it would be removed and the book graded, no big deal.  Without the insert, it looks like any regular comic book, so unless you knew it was originally there, you would not panic and say "Oh no, my comic is missing its advertising insert!"

I personally don't think it matters, but the market seems to see it differently.  As the price difference between the 2 versions increases, the paranoia of buying the "wrong copy" increases.

Years ago, Overstreet tried to give them the same value, Tatooz or no Tatooz.  Put one price entry, and mentioned that it should be the same because a replacement Tatooz could be found in other issues.  I think they were swayed to do this because of popular demand.  The "it doesn't matter" crowd was arguing louder than the "it does matter" crowd.  As the market continued to bear out the different values, Overstreet eventually pivoted back to giving them different values in the guide, with a note that Tatooz from other comics were being inserted back into 238s to increase the value. 

As grading in general grew in the hobby, the green Qualified label and the prominent notation about the Missing Tatooz made the divide even wider.

I'm not even sure if all 238's were originally manufactured with Tatooz.  Overstreet says that Canadian Price Variants did not contain Tatooz.  I read somewhere, can't remember where or when, that possibly not all Newsstand issues had them.  Maybe someone knows the factual story about these amazing Tatooz.  It's probably been discussed here over the years in other threads.

Yes,I was just going to say, weren't some copies manufactured without? I'm sure we've had that discussion before, but I can't recall if it was confirmed. If so, it would be nice to know if there were any telltale signs to be certain.

[Lazyboy]

On 7/21/2022 at 3:17 PM, F For Fake said:

Yes,I was just going to say, weren't some copies manufactured without? I'm sure we've had that discussion before, but I can't recall if it was confirmed. If so, it would be nice to know if there were any telltale signs to be certain.

Of course there were. Inserts weren't some perfect process that defied this world where it's not that uncommon to see comics with missing pages or extra covers/pages.

[Lazyboy]

On 7/21/2022 at 12:25 PM, lostboys said:

When the tats are removed, is there a stub left behind?

The Tattooz can be removed without much damage to the insert, the insert could just be completely removed, or anything between those extremes could happen.

[Lightning55]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:17 PM, F For Fake said:

Yes,I was just going to say, weren't some copies manufactured without? I'm sure we've had that discussion before, but I can't recall if it was confirmed. If so, it would be nice to know if there were any telltale signs to be certain.

On 7/21/2022 at 7:23 PM, Lazyboy said:

Of course there were. Inserts weren't some perfect process that defied this world where it's not that uncommon to see comics with missing pages or extra covers/pages.

Not counting "accidents" at the printer, I am wondering if it is known if some were intended to not have the Tatooz.  Like as a regional thing, or like how Mark's Jewelers inserts aren't ubiquitous.  Or were all Newsstand copies and all Direct copies supposed to have it, CPV not having it.

[Lazyboy]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:09 PM, Lightning55 said:

Not counting "accidents" at the printer, I am wondering if it is known if some were intended to not have the Tatooz.  Like as a regional thing, or like how Mark's Jewelers inserts aren't ubiquitous.  Or were all Newsstand copies and all Direct copies supposed to have it, CPV not having it.

No. As stated on the cover, every copy was meant to have it, and did, barring manufacturing error. Direct, Newsstand, and Canadian Newsstand all got Tattooz.

[MAR1979]

I bet many FF252s are missing the tatooz and easy to speculate where most have gone

[justafan]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:28 AM, MAR1979 said:

I bet many FF252s are missing the tatooz and easy to speculate where most have gone

Im buying up all the ff252 copies with tattooz to preserve as many as i can. Im starting a gofundme. Save the ff tattooz!

[Randall Dowling]

I've known several collectors that bought multiple copies of both ASM 238 and FF 252 when they came out (including one who had subscriptions from Marvel) that all report bagging right away and then checking a decade or so later and finding no tattoos inside.  

When I ran a comic book store in the early 90s, we still had back stock on FF252 from the original order and again, many copies without tattoos.  To be clear, the envelope was all there, just nothing inside.  I remember joking with a coworker that it could have been some prank by jerky adults who were supposed to be putting the tattoos into the envelopes, sticking it to the kids.  As @Lazyboy said, there are many copies that never had the tattoos but had the envelope.  I never knew anyone that took the tattoos out.

[MAR1979]

  

On 7/22/2022 at 11:04 PM, Randall Dowling said:

I've known several collectors that bought multiple copies of both ASM 238 and FF 252 when they came out (including one who had subscriptions from Marvel) that all report bagging right away and then checking a decade or so later and finding no tattoos inside.  

When I ran a comic book store in the early 90s, we still had back stock on FF252 from the original order and again, many copies without tattoos.  To be clear, the envelope was all there, just nothing inside.  I remember joking with a coworker that it could have been some prank by jerky adults who were supposed to be putting the tattoos into the envelopes, sticking it to the kids.  As @Lazyboy said, there are many copies that never had the tattoos but had the envelope.  I never knew anyone that took the tattoos out.

My opinion is the envelope insert is required but the tatooz itself is not. I believe that is how Overstreet had it.  

What I find entirely mind boggling is someone can rip away/tear off the Cover and nearly all the pages from a book like JLA 208 or Daring New Adventures of Supergirl 1 leaving just the interior pages that contain the Masters of The Universe story and CGC gladly slaps a blue label on that. Then a book like ASM 238 gets the green label for missing a tiny half inch loose sticker (the tatooz itself) that may or may not have ever been in the book in the first place.

The complete and utter lack of congruence IMHO falls into the category of surely CGC knows better, but does whatever they want if it brings in a mere penny or 2.

Edited August 10, 2022 by MAR1979

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 7/21/2022 at 10:02 AM, lostboys said:

So I'm shopping around for a copy in the 8.0 range and I'm a bit shocked at how much cheaper the "no tatooz" copies are.

Is it mostly about folks wanting that blue label? 

Are there other books put there like ASM 238 in this regard?

What's your opinion? Did you need the tatooz to be satisfied when you bought your copy?

 

At about half the price currently,  I think green labels of this book missing the tattoos are a good purchase.

 

But I think green label HULK 181s ( missing the stamp) are a good purchase too...

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER

[MAR1979]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:30 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

At about half the price currently,  I think green labels of this book missing the tattoos are a good purchase.

 

Yep, grab a 9.6 or 9.8 crack it out then insert a tatooz from a FF252 (or some copies of; Marvel Tales 149, GI Joe 9) then resubmit.  It's farcical!   What i want know is why a 238 submitter bothers to send it to CGC without adding another tatooz first? Carelessness in not seeing it was missing? Laziness? Lack of Knowledge??

Edited July 23, 2022 by MAR1979

[lostboys]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:37 AM, MAR1979 said:

Yep, grab a 9.6 or 9.8 then insert a tatooz from a FF252 (or Marvel Tales 149) then resubmit.  It's farcical!

It can't be that simple...can it?

I'd think, by now, flippers would have run this scam into the ground.

[MAR1979]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:43 AM, lostboys said:

It can't be that simple...can it?

I'd think, by now, flippers would have run this scam into the ground.

I feel it's the prime reason 238 green labels sell at the levels they do. Most purchasers are doing just that.

Edited July 23, 2022 by MAR1979

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:47 AM, MAR1979 said:

On 7/23/2022 at 10:43 AM, lostboys said:

It can't be that simple...can it?

I'd think, by now, flippers would have run this scam into the ground.

I feel it's the prime reason 238 green labels sell at the levels they do. Most purchasers are doing just that.

no, no, CGC has caught that before, it doesn't work, and or, would not be something to promote  

[MAR1979]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:50 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

no, no, CGC has caught that before, it doesn't work, and or, would not be something to promote  

I know of at least 2 copies personally where they have not spotted it.  But yeah I do agree if the tattooz was originally removed haphazardly.  Seems to me risk worth the reward especially on a 9.8.

Edited July 23, 2022 by MAR1979