The Maxx Aschan Received Universal Grade - 10 Others Received Qualified Grades 6 6

[Shaun03]

On 8/14/2022 at 5:09 PM, Gaard said:

"It's the grader's choice."

What is the criteria?

The only criteria I've been able to find is that if a book would grade below a certain grade without the signature, they will give it a universal label. I've read several different things on that from a 4.0-6.0. Other than that, the response I received from CGC said that it is at the discretion of the grader. There was no other explanation on that, so my assumption is they can just choose to grade it either way. I would think if you create an entirely different category you would use that, regardless of the grade, and anytime it fits into that category, but that does not seem to be the case. Just like they have the restored label. I don't think they would choose to put a universal label on a restored book just because it received a low grade.

It is what it is at this point. I'll send it back in and see what I get back and update when I do.

[zzutak]

On 8/14/2022 at 3:09 PM, Gaard said:

"It's the grader's choice."

I imagine somebody said this somewhere at some point in the past.  But let's not get in the habit of getting sloppy with direct quotes. 

For anyone new to CGC certification in particular (or comic book grading in general), condition grading is not an exact science.  CGC's proprietary (and still unpublished) grading rubric necessarily allows for judgment, and different graders may interpret/apply a given standard differently.  Some books are tweeners, right at the cusp between two adjacent grades.  Blemishes/defects can be overlooked or discounted for any number of reasons.  The bottom line is that a given book may not always receive the same CGC grade if it's submitted several times (although the various grades assigned will almost certainly be within an increment or two of each other).  This fact (not opinion) will be obvious to anyone who's done an initial prescreen and then had the rejected books accepted on a later, identical, prescreen.

This is not meant to be a slam against CGC; I know of no experienced collector who can/will assign the exact same grade to every one of his/her books every time he/she looks at 'em.  I'm totally comfortable with a grading rubric that allows for some degree of grader judgment, although I would hope that no grader uses that flexibility as an excuse for not mastering the standards that have been established formally or by precedent.  

[Shaun03]

On 8/14/2022 at 5:43 PM, zzutak said:

I imagine somebody said this somewhere at some point in the past.  But let's not get in the habit of getting sloppy with direct quotes. 

For anyone new to CGC certification in particular (or comic book grading in general), condition grading is not an exact science.  CGC's proprietary (and still unpublished) grading rubric necessarily allows for judgment, and different graders may interpret/apply a given standard differently.  Some books are tweeners, right at the cusp between two adjacent grades.  Blemishes/defects can be overlooked or discounted for any number of reasons.  The bottom line is that a given book may not always receive the same CGC grade if it's submitted several times (although the various grades assigned will almost certainly be within an increment or two of each other).  This fact (not opinion) will be obvious to anyone who's done an initial prescreen and then had the rejected books accepted on a later, identical, prescreen.

This is not meant to be a slam against CGC; I know of no experienced collector who can/will assign the exact same grade to every one of his/her books every time he/she looks at 'em.  I'm totally comfortable with a grading rubric that allows for some degree of grader judgment, although I would hope that no grader uses that flexibility as an excuse for not mastering the standards that have been established formally or by precedent.  

This is 100% true for grades. I have sent in several of the same book and received some back the same grade and some lower. Looking at them myself I can see one graded as a 9.8 that does look nearly perfect. Another that also came back as a 9.8 might have a corner that is not perfect but still received the same grade as the other. Then one that looks, to me, like the others got a 9.6 or 9.4. I fully respect what they do, it is a meticulous job, so seeing a little fluctuation when looking at tiny details is expected.

[Gaard]

On 8/14/2022 at 6:43 PM, zzutak said:

I imagine somebody said this somewhere at some point in the past.  But let's not get in the habit of getting sloppy with direct quotes. 

For anyone new to CGC certification in particular (or comic book grading in general), condition grading is not an exact science.  CGC's proprietary (and still unpublished) grading rubric necessarily allows for judgment, and different graders may interpret/apply a given standard differently.  Some books are tweeners, right at the cusp between two adjacent grades.  Blemishes/defects can be overlooked or discounted for any number of reasons.  The bottom line is that a given book may not always receive the same CGC grade if it's submitted several times (although the various grades assigned will almost certainly be within an increment or two of each other).  This fact (not opinion) will be obvious to anyone who's done an initial prescreen and then had the rejected books accepted on a later, identical, prescreen.

This is not meant to be a slam against CGC; I know of no experienced collector who can/will assign the exact same grade to every one of his/her books every time he/she looks at 'em.  I'm totally comfortable with a grading rubric that allows for some degree of grader judgment, although I would hope that no grader uses that flexibility as an excuse for not mastering the standards that have been established formally or by precedent.  

Sorry about the quoting. I should've scrolled back up to find the exact wording.

About the criteria ... I kinda gathered from your post that, even though we don't know the specifics, it's all about the grade it's in (as in, if it grades at a certain point or lower, it gets a blue). Is that correct? I was thinking that that was probably the case, but there was a possibility of it being something else ... like the size of the sig or something.

Am I correct in assuming the grader makes his/her decision on label color based on the grade, but nobody here knows what that grade is? And in this particular case, the comic that received a blue label, would've received a lower grade than the rest if they were all sigless. <-- yeah, I just made that word up

[zzutak]

The label on Shaun's book follows from its grade.  Fix the grade and you'll fix the label.    And yes, I realize that "fix" is not the best choice of words here.   

[MetalPSI]

On 8/14/2022 at 4:06 PM, Shaun03 said:

Thanks. No problems sharing. I've included pictures of the labels below in case I mistype the number. I also included the black #2 I have, in case you don't have it, it was graded when I bought it. I'm not sure why the pictures are posting upside down.

EDIT: I just got to thinking you might mean the number written on the cover so I added that in parenthesis after the CGC number.

1 - 4078327006 (On cover: 27)

2 - 0798275002 (On cover: 5)

3 - 4078327007 (On cover: 9)

Yes I wanted the number written on the books themselves, thanks. Looks like we have some legitimate new books on the record.

May I ask where you picked these up?

[Shaun03]

On 8/14/2022 at 6:20 PM, Steamed Hams said:

Yes they would  There is a special rule that certain books with minor resto can get a Blue (check the back of some old labels). It used to be pre-1950s books but that changed too. It was done via CGC pandering so that certain Edgar Church books would get subbed.

I stand corrected then. Why not just grade everything with a blue label and put notes if the color of the label doesn't matter all the time. 

[Shaun03]

On 8/15/2022 at 7:40 AM, The Meta said:

Yes I wanted the number written on the books themselves, thanks. Looks like we have some legitimate new books on the record.

May I ask where you picked these up?

They were all from ebay. The number 2 I purchased some years ago so I don't remember much about it. The other two I purchased from someone selling on ebay that was selling them for a family member. Supposedly they had been in that family member's possession for quite some time from the sounds of it.

[MetalPSI]

On 8/15/2022 at 1:33 PM, Shaun03 said:

They were all from ebay. The number 2 I purchased some years ago so I don't remember much about it. The other two I purchased from someone selling on ebay that was selling them for a family member. Supposedly they had been in that family member's possession for quite some time from the sounds of it.

Was the seller pandama?

[Shaun03]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:37 PM, The Meta said:

Was the seller pandama?

It was.

[Shaun03]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:35 PM, Steamed Hams For Everyone! said:

That's called CBCS

That brings up a question. I know PGX is not the most trusted grading service. I don't know much about CBCS though. Does anyone know if they are any good? I've looked at books graded by them, but I don't know much about their grading standards.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:03 PM, KirbyTown said:

So glad he's at MCS now 🥳

The new go-to company for grading comic books.

[KirbyTown]

On 8/15/2022 at 5:50 PM, Shaun03 said:

don't know much about their grading standards

Tight, consistent, all grades sub-9.8 get useful notes, no exceptions. Those traits applied at least while they still had the guy mentioned earlier in this thread. No resale value though, terrible for that. I know of one retailer who uses them exclusively, but consistently sells them for half CGC. However, that retailer is also local and can walk them and can pick them up (or could in the past?). Free shipping both ways on hundreds and hundreds of slabs certainly changes the equation.

Edited August 16, 2022 by KirbyTown

[The Lions Den]

On 8/15/2022 at 6:50 PM, Shaun03 said:

That brings up a question. I know PGX is not the most trusted grading service. I don't know much about CBCS though. Does anyone know if they are any good? I've looked at books graded by them, but I don't know much about their grading standards.

Their grading standards should be very similar to CGC's since their current head grader used to work there... 

And your blue label 4.0 likely has some serious defects (which really should have been noted by the grader) or it's a serious oversight. Nearly any book that's above the Fine range will usually be Qualified if it has a large bold signature on the cover in marker (unless it's sig series). 

For reference, the examples shown by Zzutak on the previous page all make sense to me, because with the exception of the Frazetta covers the signatures are unobtrusive enough to be allowable in high grade.

The Frazetta books are unusual in that they have a large signature and still received a very high-grade blue label. I'd like to know the story behind that; at this point I can only speculate that they were given special consideration because they came directly from the Frazetta estate...  

Edited August 17, 2022 by The Lions Den

[shadroch]

On 8/14/2022 at 3:09 PM, Gaard said:

"It's the grader's choice."

What is the criteria?

I believe it is covered in section 163.47 of the CGC grading guidelines.

[Shaun03]

I had responded to the email from CGC and I received an email today that there may have been a mistake on the yellow ashcan. They are going to get back to me and let me know if I should send it back in. I saw the response from @The Lions Den and that may very well be. I don't see anything major, but I don't work for CGC so I'm not trained to see what may be there. I'll update when I hear back from CGC and let everyone know if I am sending it back in per their direction, or if I break it open and send it back in and see what happens.

[Shaun03]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:25 AM, KirbyTown said:

Tight, consistent, all grades sub-9.8 get useful notes, no exceptions. Those traits applied at least while they still had the guy mentioned earlier in this thread. No resale value though, terrible for that. I know of one retailer who uses them exclusively, but consistently sells them for half CGC. However, that retailer is also local and can walk them and can pick them up (or could in the past?). Free shipping both ways on hundreds and hundreds of slabs certainly changes the equation.

Thanks for the information. If there is something I know I will keep forever I see in the future I'll consider purchasing one that is graded by them. I don't collect and sell professionally, but it is nice to know I can resell in the future if I want to get some cash from a book to buy something I want more.

[spreads]

CGC up, plain and simple.   After waiting a year at CCS (no joke, and the last time I'm ever using them) I have three PITT Ashcans coming back from CGC.  They are numbered but none of them are signed.  Guess what?  Two are blue label, one is green label.  Seriously how do you this up when you have three identical books, all at the same time??!   Great quality control there.......

[Shaun03]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:56 AM, spreads said:

CGC up, plain and simple.   After waiting a year at CCS (no joke, and the last time I'm ever using them) I have three PITT Ashcans coming back from CGC.  They are numbered but none of them are signed.  Guess what?  Two are blue label, one is green label.  Seriously how do you this up when you have three identical books, all at the same time??!   Great quality control there.......

It is frustrating. I had 11 and only one had a blue label. They did tell me to ship it back in though so it is going to be given a green label. You should send them a message and keep responding. Funny enough, someone had made a joke about submitting a mechanical error, I don't see their posts anymore so I can't quote it, but that is what happened. CGC responded and said that an error had been made so I submitted a mechanical error and I'm sending the blue label back in for a regrade with a green label.

[KirbyTown]

On 8/17/2022 at 6:41 PM, Shaun03 said:

I don't see their posts anymore

Banhammer came down, praise Thor.