How much does an unverified signature devalue a key issue? 0

[Omegawatt]

I know this is a subjective question.  I'm just looking for opinions.

Years ago, before CGC even existed, I did something dumb - I had Chris Claremont sign a high grade copy of X-Men 94.

I'm no expert at grading, but the book is in REALLY nice shape, maybe a 7.5 to 8.0 give-or-take a couple of decimals. 

If I got it graded, it would end up with a green label.  How much do you estimate the signature would reduce the value?

Thanks!

[revat]

I’d say do a sampling of sold issues on eBay, and aggregate your own data then do your own analysis.  (Make sure you factor in costs as well).

it depends on the signature, the issue, the grade, the age of the comic, the look of the signature, luck, etc.  

also, you’re not being very specific with what you want your comparison points to be

[Omegawatt]

On 8/15/2022 at 1:47 PM, Steamed Hams said:

Wow, gold pen on the cover before CGC was a thing? The OP can see the future! 

Yeah.  Had it signed at Dragon*Con in 1996.

 

On 8/15/2022 at 12:38 PM, revat said:

I’d say do a sampling of sold issues on eBay, and aggregate your own data then do your own analysis.  (Make sure you factor in costs as well).

it depends on the signature, the issue, the grade, the age of the comic, the look of the signature, luck, etc.  

also, you’re not being very specific with what you want your comparison points to be

I'm not sure what you mean by "you're not being very specific with what you want your comparison points to be."

If the book grades at an 8.0, and an 8.0 sells on eBay for an average price of $800, what, in your opinion, could I reasonably expect to get for this book on eBay with a green label 8.0 grade?

[rexinnih]

I believe you can ask CGC to grade as a defect and you can get Blue. I had a similar situation with a Wolverine Limited signed by Claremont similar to yours that I submitted for the Frank Miller Signature Series signing. It came back an 8.0 Yellow Lable with no green. They counted down for the unverified Claremont sig. 

[revat]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:18 AM, Omegawatt said:

On 8/15/2022 at 9:38 AM, revat said:

I’d say do a sampling of sold issues on eBay, and aggregate your own data then do your own analysis.  (Make sure you factor in costs as well).

it depends on the signature, the issue, the grade, the age of the comic, the look of the signature, luck, etc.  

also, you’re not being very specific with what you want your comparison points to be

I'm not sure what you mean by "you're not being very specific with what you want your comparison points to be."

If the book grades at an 8.0, and an 8.0 sells on eBay for an average price of $800, what, in your opinion, could I reasonably expect to get for this book on eBay with a green label 8.0 grade?

It wasn't clear if you were trying to compare your green label book with a CGC blue of the same grade, a CGC yellow of the same grade, or the raw.

You've made it clear now. Good luck.

[Omegawatt]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:47 PM, rexinnih said:

I believe you can ask CGC to grade as a defect and you can get Blue. I had a similar situation with a Wolverine Limited signed by Claremont similar to yours that I submitted for the Frank Miller Signature Series signing. It came back an 8.0 Yellow Lable with no green. They counted down for the unverified Claremont sig. 

So are you saying you think CGC would have graded the book higher than an 8.0 if it wasn't for the Claremont signature?

[revat]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:00 PM, Omegawatt said:

On 8/15/2022 at 11:47 AM, rexinnih said:

I believe you can ask CGC to grade as a defect and you can get Blue. I had a similar situation with a Wolverine Limited signed by Claremont similar to yours that I submitted for the Frank Miller Signature Series signing. It came back an 8.0 Yellow Lable with no green. They counted down for the unverified Claremont sig. 

So are you saying you think CGC would have graded the book higher than an 8.0 if it wasn't for the Claremont signature?

Theoretically, if you opt for the green label (this is the default CGC treatment), they completely ignore the signature and grade the book as if the signature was not there, then assign that grade.

IF you opt for the blue label, they do not ignore the signature but count it as scribbling or other ink marking on the cover, and count it as a defect against the grade.  The amount of grade reduction depends on how obtrusive/distracting the marking is, as well as the original grade without the signature.  For example, if a book was otherwise a 10.0, you would expect a bigger point deduction than if the book was otherwise a 2.5.

The Chris Claremont signature on your book is pretty big and obtrusive.  

As I stated previously, there's no hard and fast rule for valuation of the unverified signatures (it depends on a myriad of factors), so unless you can find someone who has done specific data analysis on this particular book for this particular signature and charted all the data points AND is willing to share them with a random internet stranger for free, any specific advice you get will be limited in value.  

But I would also consider other grading companies that authenticate signatures, that might be a better option, but again you probably gotta do your own research.  If you're viewing this as a financial decision, treat it as such and find best available data points and do an analysis.

[Omegawatt]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:17 PM, revat said:

Theoretically, if you opt for the green label (this is the default CGC treatment), they completely ignore the signature and grade the book as if the signature was not there, then assign that grade.

IF you opt for the blue label, they do not ignore the signature but count it as scribbling or other ink marking on the cover, and count it as a defect against the grade.  The amount of grade reduction depends on how obtrusive/distracting the marking is, as well as the original grade without the signature.  For example, if a book was otherwise a 10.0, you would expect a bigger point deduction than if the book was otherwise a 2.5.

The Chris Claremont signature on your book is pretty big and obtrusive.  

Thank you for this information.  I have never had a book graded by CGC or anyone else, so this info is helpful and enlightening. 

I wasn't hoping for anyone to provide solid data on sales trends and value figures, just general opinions.  Like I said, I know the value is subjective.

Thanks again!

[seanfingh]

That is a really sharp copy with great color strike.

[O Doyle Rules]

Have you considered having CBCS grade it with their verified signature program? I believe that CBCS does not reduce the grade if the signature is verified. Am I correct?  Not promoting or schilling for them as I have no connection to them. I am asking why you may not consider it. I think that maybe the consensus is that CBCS graded comics sell for less than a comparably graded CGC comic? Lol, as you can see I have more questions than answers. 

BTW, nice book, I would buy it. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by O Doyle Rules

[Omegawatt]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:34 PM, seanfingh said:

That is a really sharp copy with great color strike.

Sure, rub it in. 

[Omegawatt]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:52 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Have you considered having CBCS grade it with their verified signature program? I believe that CBCS does not reduce the grade if the signature is verified. Am I correct?  Not promoting or schilling for them as I have no connection to them. I am asking why you may not consider it. I think that maybe the consensus is that CBCS graded comics sell for less than a comparably graded CGC comic? Lol, as you can see I have more questions than answers. 

BTW, nice book, I would buy it. 

I'm not familiar with CBCS, but I think you're right - they would likely be seen as a "knockoff" of CGC.  The signature is so large and obtrusive as revat pointed out, I think I'd be better off taking my chances with CGC blue or green label grading and letting the potential buyers decide.

It really does eat me up though that I had SUCH a nice book signed.  At the time I thought it would be like having a signed, first edition HG Wells novel or something.  me.  It cost me a pretty penny to buy another unslabbed copy that's in worse condition than this one.

[O Doyle Rules]

On 8/15/2022 at 5:17 PM, Omegawatt said:

It cost me a pretty penny to buy another unslabbed copy that's in worse condition than this one.

Like, I said I would buy your book -  it can go towards your fund for the replacement - Call me crazy - I like the signature. 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 8/15/2022 at 5:27 PM, Steamed Hams For Everyone! said:

Not really, since the man who founded CBCS did so after he helped start CGC and was their Head Grader and President for their first 8 years.

I was not aware of that. Isn't CBCS considered inferior to CGC by buyers of graded comics? I mean from a value standpoint. If two comics graded the same, the CGC would fetch more money? 

Edited August 15, 2022 by O Doyle Rules

[drmccoy74]

On 8/15/2022 at 5:27 PM, Steamed Hams said:

Not really, since the man who founded CBCS did so after he helped start CGC and was their Head Grader and President for their first 8 years.

They are totally legit and tougher graders lately in my experience 

[Omegawatt]

On 8/15/2022 at 5:27 PM, Steamed Hams For Everyone! said:

Not really, since the man who founded CBCS did so after he helped start CGC and was their Head Grader and President for their first 8 years.

In reality, maybe.  But public perception is another matter.

[KirbyTown]

On 8/15/2022 at 8:52 AM, Omegawatt said:

I know this is a subjective question.  I'm just looking for opinions.

Years ago, before CGC even existed, I did something dumb - I had Chris Claremont sign a high grade copy of X-Men 94.

I'm no expert at grading, but the book is in REALLY nice shape, maybe a 7.5 to 8.0 give-or-take a couple of decimals. 

If I got it graded, it would end up with a green label.  How much do you estimate the signature would reduce the value?

Thanks!

Awesome comic.

You unfortunately can't pick blue or green; "up to the grader" is the policy, post-it note included or not.

Competitors should not be used for slabbing unsigned books if the intent is to resell. Depending on the comic, we're talking 50% or less of the equivalent CGC graded slab, with key comics being less miserable though.

Why? Competitor slabs don't match the rest of people's collection, the number grade is de-emphasized, and kids straight-up refuse to buy them.

The competitor's verification service, not a service CGC offers and therefore I can safely say not in direct competition for and can be spoken of, is excellent. If you're selling on MCS, you do have a chance at selling a verified slab because it's verified. You paid for the service and took the risk of it coming back a no-go and people (including me) will pay for that. If it's a verified book then I'm buying the signature and its verification, especially if the underlying human has gone off to join the bleedin' choir invisible.

Edited August 16, 2022 by KirbyTown

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't think that the signature reduces the value, but the Qualified label might.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:45 PM, KirbyTown said:

You unfortunately can't pick blue or green; "up to the grader" is the policy, post-it note included or not.

The graders seem to typically honor the customer's request, though.

[shadroch]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:34 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

I was not aware of that. Isn't CBCS considered inferior to CGC by buyers of graded comics? I mean from a value standpoint. If two comics graded the same, the CGC would fetch more money? 

But they won't grade the same. CGC will consider the signature a defect. IF the other company determines it is legit, it will enhance the value of the book.