HA Wednesday auction 0

[Michael Browning]

On 9/8/2022 at 7:10 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Infantino SW has been really tough to find over the past few years... price shows a measure of buyer frustration imo

Agreed, but that’s an Infantino SW - Star Wars - page result. It’s a crazy market right now. But, there are probably three or four collectors this morning counting their pennies for today’s HA after spending their loot last night.

[comix4fun]

On 9/8/2022 at 5:56 AM, Michael Browning said:

 

Over at C-link, I thought the Ditko Strange Tales 125 page featuring great images of Dr. Strange sold low at $66K.

 

Ditko inked by Bell makes $66k an ENORMOUS result by a pretty wide margin.

 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:35 AM, comix4fun said:

Ditko inked by Bell makes $66k an ENORMOUS result by a pretty wide margin.

 

Question to the experts…if this page was Ditko pencils AND inks, would it cross the $100K threshold?  If so, what would it go for?

[Bronty]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:35 AM, comix4fun said:

Ditko inked by Bell makes $66k an ENORMOUS result by a pretty wide margin.

 

 

My take is that this page has enough going for it that Bell, Shmell, Schmucklack, or Colletta, its going to go for a good number.     I think at 65k people are paying for Strange in every panel and Eye of Agamotto being in use more than they are worrying about the inker.   

I'm not in the market for Ditko Dr Strange, but that's my sense.

[Bronty]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:54 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Question to the experts…if this page was Ditko pencils AND inks, would it cross the $100K threshold?  If so, what would it go for?

Question to the experts.. answer from the peanut gallery:

I think it would get to or past 100k in that scenario yes

[comix4fun]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:55 AM, Bronty said:

 

My take is that this page has enough going for it that Bell, Shmell, Schmucklack, or Colletta, its going to go for a good number.     I think at 65k people are paying for Strange in every panel and Eye of Agamotto being in use more than they are worrying about the inker.   

 

I'm not in the market for Ditko Dr Strange, but that's my sense.

There's a multi-decade established Ditko market that draws a really hard, indelible, line between the stuff that's ALL Ditko and Ditko inked by others. 
Ditko Bell (Bell being brought in because of his speed in inking) pages look dramatically different than all Ditko, especially on Strange Tales. 
Ditko collectors have always worried about the inker, mostly because when you put his inked pages next to any other inker it's night and day. 

A 'good number' based on the market would have been in the 40's. 
But, really, "worrying about the inker" is really being an "OA collector" isn't it? Otherwise we're just collecting characters and it might as well be all George Bell. 
 

On 9/8/2022 at 9:54 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Question to the experts…if this page was Ditko pencils AND inks, would it cross the $100K threshold?  If so, what would it go for?

I think easily. It's a good page and a page worth collecting as is, for sure...but a page that would be amazing with Ditko inks. Not sure where it would end but you've got the Eye taking the place of a villain or supporting cast member and making it more desirable...and Strange is all over the page. Personally, having seen and held pages completed by both, dollar for dollar all Ditko is worth double the same page not inked by Ditko. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by comix4fun

[Will_K]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:17 AM, tth2 said:

$20k for a Terry & The Pirates comic strip from 1935.  It's crazy how prices have absolutely exploded for these.

That really surprised me.  And knowing there were more Terry strips to follow, I thought... "OK, here we go !!!".  The amazing thing was there was another Terry from less than a month later in 1935 that went for "only" $ 528.  That is a very wide range.  And several others in the later 1930's went for less than $1,000.

[comix4fun]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:55 AM, Bronty said:

worrying about the inker.   

 

I will give you this. I've seen more of this sentiment in the market in the last 3-4 years than in the 20+ years that preceded it. 

It's actually a little scary that the basic tenets of OA collecting (penciller, inker, era, etc) that point to relative quality has lost some, or all, of it's meaning to a segment of the collecting public that's also spending significant money on pieces. 

 

[vodou]

It is never a problem to buy the worst house on the best street -at the right price.

[Bronty]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:13 AM, comix4fun said:

I will give you this. I've seen more of this sentiment in the market in the last 3-4 years than in the 20+ years that preceded it. 

It's actually a little scary that the basic tenets of OA collecting (penciller, inker, era, etc) that point to relative quality has lost some, or all, of it's meaning to a segment of the collecting public that's also spending significant money on pieces. 

 

Collecting rules change over time.    The earliest collectors probably thought Ditko pages going for golden age numbers was stupid too.   All these rules we operate under can change any time. 
 

That being said we are more or less saying the same thing.   It’s a valuable page inked by Bell, and a more valuable page inked by Ditko, because it would look fantastic inked by Steve.   
 

I think the market is more ready today to just judge the overall image and other attributes regardless of the credits.    I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.   

Edited September 8, 2022 by Bronty

[lobrac]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:23 AM, vodou said:

It is never a problem to buy the worst house on the best street -at the right price.

Unless Colletta did the plumbing. 

[KirbyCollector]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:43 PM, lobrac said:

Unless Colletta did the plumbing. 

Dreaming about what this upcoming HA Kirby page WOULD HAVE looked like under Sinnott's inks... that top panel looks more like Walt Simonson in his heyday than Jack... and what happened to the one bad guy's face in that panel? It's like Vince just gave up! 

Edited September 8, 2022 by KirbyCollector

[rsonenthal]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:03 AM, Will_K said:

That really surprised me.  And knowing there were more Terry strips to follow, I thought... "OK, here we go !!!".  The amazing thing was there was another Terry from less than a month later in 1935 that went for "only" $ 528.  That is a very wide range.  And several others in the later 1930's went for less than $1,000.

I think that might be the first appearance of Normandie Drake.  Strip art, like comic art is story dependent.

[MIL0S]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:03 AM, Will_K said:

That really surprised me.  And knowing there were more Terry strips to follow, I thought... "OK, here we go !!!".  The amazing thing was there was another Terry from less than a month later in 1935 that went for "only" $ 528.  That is a very wide range.  And several others in the later 1930's went for less than $1,000.

I've noticed the stream of Terry strips and the wide range of prices. is it known where they are coming from, is it the collection of some long time Terry collector being liquidated?

[lobrac]

On 9/8/2022 at 3:49 PM, MIL0S said:

I've noticed the stream of Terry strips and the wide range of prices. is it known where they are coming from, is it the collection of some long time Terry collector being liquidated?

I'm more curious who's bidding on all of them. 

But to answer your question, I believe they are coming from the Bobby G. Murphy Collection.

[tth2]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:03 PM, Will_K said:

That really surprised me.  And knowing there were more Terry strips to follow, I thought... "OK, here we go !!!".  The amazing thing was there was another Terry from less than a month later in 1935 that went for "only" $ 528.  That is a very wide range.  And several others in the later 1930's went for less than $1,000.

It all depends on whether any major characters are featured, and if so who, and if any notable female guest characters appear.  Historically, strips with the Dragon Lady commanded the big premiums, but at the moment, strips with Burma are super hot.

The sheer number of Terry strips coming out of the Bobby G. Murphy collection is weighing down the prices on the less sexy Terrys.  I think there are some really good long-term opportunities for anyone with a good eye and the patience to wait it out until the collection is exhausted. 

[Rick2you2]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:51 AM, Bronty said:

Collecting rules change over time.   
 

***
 

I think the market is more ready today to just judge the overall image and other attributes regardless of the credits.    I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.   

The market has a long way to go before that happens. Nostalgia continues to control pricing, and pricing is substantially a function of the wealth of the age group feeling nostalgic.

[Michael Browning]

I guess HA doesn’t want my money:

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Michael Browning

[Sean I]

Been getting that blocked message a lot this week too.  It usually goes away after half a day or so, very strange.  Guess I’m glad I’m not the only one!

[comix4fun]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:51 AM, Bronty said:

 

I think the market is more ready today to just judge the overall image and other attributes regardless of the credits.    I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.   

Not to belabor this point, but I've been thinking about this and about how markets "evolve" (devolve?) over time and I think we hit a chicken or egg moment here with the discussion of judging comic OA regardless of credits. 

Judging the overall image, over the last several decades of OA collecting, trading and sales, is how we as a hobby got to a market where Ditko inking himself became the peak of Ditko artwork both in cost and appreciation. 

It wasn't an arbitrary situation where it was "look at the credits alone" and determine price/value/quality. The credits became a shorthand way, especially on Ditko Dr. Strange where there was a small quantity of known artwork (compared to, say, his ASM output) and a large chunk of it was not inked by Ditko himself, to recognize the cream of the crop. The analysis was baked in by that point. It created easy side by side comparisons of what was entirely his work and what was only his pencil work and not inked up to the style and standards he'd established.
In these types of situations where the "credits" became inextricably joined, over such a long history, to "quality" or "hierarchy" of the best work by a particular artist on a particular series or character I think that judging a piece of OA without an eye towards who executed the piece 1) ignores the underpinnings of how and why those credits and those careers became synonymous with "the best" or "not as good" and 2) is a huge step backwards in the evolution of the hobby on established artists and markets. 

The reason why people pay close heed to the credits on so many of these OA pieces is because, over time, they've put a Kirby/Colletta next to a Kirby/Sinnott and a Ditko/Ditko next to a Ditko/Bell, or any of hundreds of other pencil/ink teams and (without having to look at the credits) the disparity was evident on the face of the pieces. 

There are a lot of new collectors who have entered the hobby more recently and active right now and bidding/spending well into five-figures, who don't care who the inker is on a piece, or don't know (in full) how variations in art teams and technique can create disparate outcomes. That just feels like a bad thing. 
I'm not saying the credits are the end all be all for all art, but for established areas artists and penciller/inker teams...the verdict has been in for a long time.

Ignoring the credits and looking to the piece itself likely isn't a bad thing for newer artists, or developing artists, or established artists who've transformed their style (Travis Charest comes to mind as someone who has a dividing line between eras of his work) if we're simply considering how well penciled, inked, and composed a piece of artwork is. The best artwork rises to the top, or it should.