If this is the only OA forum, why isn't everyone here? 4 4

[vodou]

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

Upton Sinclair, I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked

[cloud cloddie]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:04 AM, barneythecantankerous said:

Because forums are outdated today, especially as they typically tend to be cesspools filled with nepotism, so they're a difficult entry point for new participants, and they're a pretty poor way of keeping up to date.

Keep in mind this forum is very negative of dealers and they make up the majority of CAFs business and live shows, which is probably why a lot of shade is thrown this way.

To the bolded part - not all dealers. But yes, when one of the CAF co-owners has been called out here after admitting he shilled his own auctions, I’d imagine they wouldn’t be huge fans. 

[Rick2you2]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:29 AM, cloud cloddie said:

To the bolded part - not all dealers. But yes, when one of the CAF co-owners has been called out here after admitting he shilled his own auctions, I’d imagine they wouldn’t be huge fans. 

Nor would discussions of pricing collusion between dealers or lying to prospective buyers. On the other hand, I think that some of the forthright and seemingly honest dealers who show up improve the likelihood of getting sales based on reputation. Albert does pretty well here.

[cstojano]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:38 AM, JadeGiant said:

There are lots of reasons but the main is that the conversations have been widely dispersed with the explosion of social media. Whatever platform you prefer to engage in (FB, IG, Twitter, etc.), that is where a lot of people tend to spend their time. The aforementioned Statue Forum site is a great example - once brimming with conversations and content, the traffic has dwindled significantly. I am a moderator over there so I still post but only a tiny fraction of users post compared to the pre-social media days. I tend to prefer the forum format but I am clearly in the minority with that preference. 

I have almost completely moved on from statue collecting, mostly because of the room needed for the statues (ever increasing in size, seriously who needs a 1/4 scale horse in their house), their boxes, and the damn dust. But I do check SF and SSF every once in a while. I got the sense the entire hobby was in a decline. Is that the case? Seems the double whammy of escalating costs and the lack of fresh ideas was stagnating things a bit. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by cstojano

[Rick2you2]

On 10/9/2022 at 6:04 AM, barneythecantankerous said:

Because forums are outdated today, especially as they typically tend to be cesspools filled with nepotism, so they're a difficult entry point for new participants, and they're a pretty poor way of keeping up to date.

Keep in mind this forum is very negative of dealers and they make up the majority of CAFs business and live shows, which is probably why a lot of shade is thrown this way.

You seem to have picked an apt screen name.

“Cesspools filled with nepotism”? Most people here presumably didn’t know each other until they got here, and unless you act like a troll or a know-it-all when you don’t (no, I am not making a sly comment here about you, if you thought I had). This is a very polite board. And as for keeping up to date, where else are you going to go, the London Times? Places like Facebook are pretty weak on serious pricing discussions.

As mentioned above, dealers who play it straight, or who contribute here, don’t get cr*p thrown on their shoes. If criticism is justified, just give an explanation. I’m not perfect, and if I make a mistake, that’s fair comment. I think they know it too. 

Personally, I blame the increasingly short attention span now allotted to people. Busy days lead to little discourse of a casual nature. Even things like emails are now long form as compared to text messages. Political discourse is little more than: X sucks, no Y sucks, no Y sucks more than X. I prefer to blame this on Sesame Street for short attention spans, and Barney the Purple Dinosaur for everything else.

[Dr. Balls]

On 10/9/2022 at 4:04 AM, barneythecantankerous said:

Because forums are outdated today, especially as they typically tend to be cesspools filled with nepotism, so they're a difficult entry point for new participants, and they're a pretty poor way of keeping up to date.

Cesspool of nepotism? If you feel there is a problem, my guess is that there is now an entire generation of people who are getting into the hobby that have the communication skills and emotional fortitude of a goldfish - this is likely the problem with people not adapting to a website that requires you to type words, formulate sentences and string together thoughts and convert them to written expressions and ideas. There is not some underhanded, dark conspiracy revolving longtime board members who are *in* with moderators, or some other fictitious nonsense to put new users in their place and keep all the cool artwork to themselves. (I guess this is what nepotistic forums are trying to achieve?  )

I have seen very little of anyone here (or any other section of the boards) not accepting or welcoming of a new member. I have seen plenty of noobs coming in hot, acting like arseholes and subsequently get roasted for doing so. But I subscribe to the age-old internet philosophy of "act like an arsehole, get treated like an arsehole", so I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's not like I haven't teed off on someone here, or someone hasn't done it to me. I have emotional ability to either move on from such an attack or to self-police my own behavior and adjust to make my visiting experience more pleasurable and not try to be a raging hemorrhoid towards everyone in every single thread I'm in. It's a pretty outdated notion, and since it's worked for humanity for 200,000 years - it only seems natural that the Numbnut Generation demand everyone else change it to their childlike requirements of a 100% positive reinforced and non-confrontational sanitized emotional internet experience.

I've been to the alternative sites spoken about above, and to each their own. I'd rather expend the effort here trying to get some conversations going and make this a one-stop place for myself.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[Taylor G]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:05 PM, rsonenthal said:

I'm not sure I see how adding another 10 or however many different message boards automatically helps new collectors.

One board.  One.

A lot of young collectors will be familiar with Discord from gaming and may be more comfortable with it.  People of a certain age just will not use discussion boards.  It's got nothing to do with "cesspools of nepotism" (what does that even mean?).  

Plus most people access the Internet these days via their phone.  A discussion board needs a mobile app to be relevant.  And the Facebook app is basically malware.

[JadeGiant]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:20 PM, cstojano said:

I have almost completely moved on from statue collecting, mostly because of the room needed for the statues (ever increasing in size, seriously who needs a 1/4 scale horse in their house), their boxes, and the damn dust. But I do check SF and SSF every once in a while. I got the sense the entire hobby was in a decline. Is that the case? Seems the double whammy of escalating costs and the lack of fresh ideas was stagnating things a bit. 

I think it is still thriving but not for me. An occassional piece here and there is about the extent of my buying. Will do a big sell off at some point. 

[RBerman]

On 10/9/2022 at 5:02 PM, JadeGiant said:

I think it is still thriving but not for me. An occassional piece here and there is about the extent of my buying. Will do a big sell off at some point. 

Don’t tease us like that!

[cstojano]

The day DHL dropped of the two Uman Witchking boxes I knew I was done and wanted them out of my house as soon as possible ;) But at least their enormity explained the 900 dollars they charged for shipping.

All I really have left are my bronzes. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by cstojano

[fmaz]

One thing I would note - a lot of people who frequently discuss art are, if not actively buying and selling all the time, at least always have their eyes open for pieces they might want to add too.  So whatever you think of the discussion here (and I happen to think it’s really good), I think some people spend time elsewhere since they can talk about art AND be in the market to buy/sell at the same time.

Fact is, the marketplace here has severely degraded in the last few years. Where it used to feature a somewhat  active market of member-to-member pieces (nowhere near as robust as the comic market on this site, but at least something).

Now it’s mainly links to already existing online sales and WTB listings.

So I do think a lot of people are members here, but they might not visit quite as often, as they might spend a bit more time in other places where there’s more temptation of new to market art.  As we are all, as we know, weak-willed and ready to part with our hard-earned cash at a moment’s notice.  

 

[Rick2you2]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:31 AM, fmaz said:

One thing I would note - a lot of people who frequently discuss art are, if not actively buying and selling all the time, at least always have their eyes open for pieces they might want to add too.  So whatever you think of the discussion here (and I happen to think it’s really good), I think some people spend time elsewhere since they can talk about art AND be in the market to buy/sell at the same time.

Fact is, the marketplace here has severely degraded in the last few years. Where it used to feature a somewhat  active market of member-to-member pieces (nowhere near as robust as the comic market on this site, but at least something).

Now it’s mainly links to already existing online sales and WTB listings.

So I do think a lot of people are members here, but they might not visit quite as often, as they might spend a bit more time in other places where there’s more temptation of new to market art.  As we are all, as we know, weak-willed and ready to part with our hard-earned cash at a moment’s notice.  

 

I always look at the Marketplace, but what I look for is hard to find. In fact, I have never found a piece here to directly buy. Too much higher end dealer listings, or repetitive listings elsewhere. Almost everything else, besides Clink is in CAT. The only other place I check are the groups in Facebook (Meta? Blecch). Once-once- I saw a relevant piece for sale but passed because I didn’t like the seller’s sales technique and I hope he choked on it.

[KirbyCollector]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:29 AM, cloud cloddie said:

when one of the CAF co-owners has been called out here after admitting he shilled his own auctions, I’d imagine they wouldn’t be huge fans.

What?! I guess I am too new here... I always thought Bill was the sole owner... who is the other guy?

[vodou]

On 10/10/2022 at 1:49 PM, KirbyCollector said:

... who is the other guy?

[cloud cloddie]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:49 AM, KirbyCollector said:

What?! I guess I am too new here... I always thought Bill was the sole owner... who is the other guy?

 

[KirbyCollector]

On 10/10/2022 at 3:08 PM, cloud cloddie said:

 

So... we are supposed to accept the integrity of a Chinese wall he put up with the guy who saved him from bankruptcy. Well, that's fine -- just don't expect me to participate in CAF's pricing data collection, ever.

[The Voord]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:50 PM, vodou said:

Ha!  How about . . . 

 

 

[RBerman]

I have no concerns about Bill’s integrity or his willingness and ability to keep our sales data private. Anybody who really cared could hire somebody to write them a -script to scrape all the sales data from Heritage Auctions. In fact, my wife could do it for me if I cared.

That said, it is understandable for people (both collectors and competitors) to get concerned that any dealer has a financial stake in the de facto nerve center of our hobbyist community. Ideally, revenue from the community would be high enough that dealers part-ownership could be bought out, and advertising ended too for that matter. $75 a year doesn’t seem like much in a hobby where people spend hundreds or thousands (or…) on each piece. If there were a path toward CAF’s financial independence, I would support it as good for the hobby, but I may be a starry eyed idealist (and just plain ignorant about the financial details) about the actual prospects.

[cloud cloddie]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:20 PM, KirbyCollector said:

So... we are supposed to accept the integrity of a Chinese wall he put up with the guy who saved him from bankruptcy. Well, that's fine -- just don't expect me to participate in CAF's pricing data collection, ever.

To be fair to Bill, he said no investors have access to that information, and I have no reason not to believe him. He had no obligation to address anything, but he was extremely forthright. I just linked the thread since the question was asked who else was an investor. 

[malvin]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:20 PM, KirbyCollector said:

So... we are supposed to accept the integrity of a Chinese wall he put up with the guy who saved him from bankruptcy. Well, that's fine -- just don't expect me to participate in CAF's pricing data collection, ever.

What exactly is CAF's pricing data collection?

Malvin