The Banning of Earthbind and the Censorship of artistic expression 2 2

[vodou]

[The Voord]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:44 PM, vodou said:

Ah, Jesus toast, does it work as well as Jesus soap?

 

[Bronty]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:22 PM, Tatterdamillion said:

They were never going to print that card again for one as it is never played, and that mechanic isn't very red in many ways anymore (being an enchantment that causes the loss of flying). While I love Q Hoovers art, this one didn't do it for me in any form. Really all their bans aside from crusade were really non factors in so many ways as none of those cards really saw any play (crusade aside). WotC can always make a different enchantment for white weenies similar or even exactly the same as crusade and just call it something else. Of course they will have to deal with the backlash of all the "in the good'ol days" crowd, demanding their crusade back..

Also, the genie is out of the bottle. The damn cards can be found whenever you want them.  

While I am not offended by the cards, I am happy that they are exiled (mtg term).  

Saying you are sorry is better than saying nothing. 

I guess I should have known better than to try and tap out a response on mobile because my text just went goodbye.

Anyways, grapeape’s point in this thread, as I interpret it, is that once your policy is about not offending people (woke banned cards, homogenous artistic direction, not reprinting certain cards) you lose or at least reduce the opportunity to create something new and great.    It’s not about earthbind, it’s about their policies in general which seem to be crank up the gimmicks, crank up the reprints,  and crank down the potential to offend even the most sensitive soul.   

I can only speak for myself but I took a 25 year break, got dragged back in, was quickly turned off of new product by the constant reprints and gimmicks.    Any semi valuable card is a reprint about to happen.    That’s not for me, so I found my way to alpha 40 and play with my round corner crusades just fine.  
 

I won’t support the new product but hey maybe I’m just cranky and old and wouldn’t buy it anyways.    That’s fine too, but I can still point out from my armchair that banning crusade or not supporting earthbind are silly moves, at least to me. 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bronty

[Bronty]

Some fun math on this set is that apparently they are printing 3000 sets of new border rares and about 1000 sets of old border rares.     Call that 4000 sets (per Joel Mick who was once their counsel).   Call it 125 rares per set for easy math - equals 500,000 rare cards.    Say 200/rare (it’s 250/pack but packs have an opportunity to contain another rare in the retro card slot) for easy math.    $100,000,000 .   I can’t imagine their direct costs (printing, updating text, etc) on the set are even a million , so it’s the easiest money they’ll ever make as long as people buy it. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bronty

[Bird]

I don't know MTG either, but I like the card art. The coloring goes a long way for me as well as the linework. But reading the card, it seems the art doesn't reflect the text; the text implies loss of flight but the art shows the fairy bound to the earth, yes in a suggestive manner which is fine by me. But the disparity of the art to the text, and add in the sexuality of the art, makes it seem very gratuitous. So I can see them looking at it when reviewing the cards and saying, what is going on here anyway?

But it is NOT censorship. Just wanted to make that clear.

Taking it out is one option and may speak to some agenda, but leaving it in would also be an agenda driven decision. Maintaining status quo is no less of an action than change; both are "agenda driven" acts.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bird

[RBerman]

I am not surprised that the Earthbind card does not fit within the artistic tone that WoTC wants for their products in 2022.

[MAR1979]

Marvel was able to publish Giant Size Man-Things in the 70s, Wizards should have at least issued some $$$shot forest nymph cards by now.  Down with up err i mean prudes

Edited October 14, 2022 by MAR1979

[Bronty]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:50 AM, RBerman said:

I am not surprised that the Earthbind card does not fit within the artistic tone that WoTC wants for their products in 2022.

Once you go that route though where do you draw the line?    Earthbind isn’t ok but demonic tutor is?  Crusade is banned but Army of Allah is not?   Etc

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bronty

[RBerman]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:03 AM, Bronty said:

Once you go that route though where do you draw the line?    Earthbind isn’t ok but demonic tutor is?  Crusade is banned but Army of Allah is not?   Etc

It's not up to me to draw the line. WoTC can do whatever they like in terms of art direction and theme. I would imagine that many factors enter into the decision.

[Bronty]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:12 AM, RBerman said:

It's not up to me to draw the line. WoTC can do whatever they like in terms of art direction and theme. I would imagine that many factors enter into the decision.

I wasn’t asking YOU to draw the line.    The general “you” or if you prefer, where does one draw the line.     Yeah it’s up to them, and it’s up to their audience to like it or not like it.    Anyways, whatever.    I ultimately have no interest in these reprints and I imagine no one else or almost no one else on this thread will buy this set either.    I just don’t care for many of their decisions.    I think most reasonable observers understand this is a money grab and nothing more, and now that they’ve opened this can of worms, a money grab they will repeat with other early sets.    But hey, no one is putting a gun to the consumer’s head. 

[RBerman]

Yes, WoTC has demonstrated great proficiency at the "money grab" maneuver over the years. They solved the problem that TSR never did, namely how to keep the player base coming back not only repeatedly, but in escalating amounts of expenditure.

[vodou]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:00 AM, The Voord said:

Ah, Jesus toast, …

Or Mohammad…it’s all what you bring in with you 

[cstojano]

Interesting that this is being construed as woke censorship (ie a dig on the left) because I can imagine a universe where the right wing pundits would declare the re-release of this card as a satanic, anti-Christian pedo ring conspiracy type of thing aimed at corrupting your children. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by cstojano

[Bronty]

On 10/14/2022 at 11:32 AM, cstojano said:

Interesting that this is being construed as woke censorship (ie a dig on the left) because I can imagine a universe where the right wing pundits would declare the re-release of this card as a satanic, anti-Christian pedo ring conspiracy type of thing aimed at corrupting your children. 

That is the way it initially looks when you hear about crusade (makes white creatures stronger) being banned without bad moon (makes black creatures stronger) being banned, but I guess I've come to change my mind on that.    I can see how if they are marketing the game worldwide, they don't want cards with religious war connotations being printed as what might seem innocent in one jurisdiction doesn't look so good in another.     And so its not bad moon which is the corollary to crusade from that perspective, but Jihad (which they have banned just like crusade).    And I can understand banning (or at least not reprinting) invoke prejudice given that the artwork has hooded figures and looks a little too KKK as a result.   

Some of the other decisions seem weak though.   Cleanse and imprison and a couple others seem to be overreaches.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bronty

[Tatterdamillion]

I forget, Bronty did you own the OA for The Abyss at one point? I remeber being hella jealous that you had that (if it was you).

 

 

[Bronty]

On 10/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, Tatterdamillion said:

I forget, Bronty did you own the OA for The Abyss at one point? I remeber being hella jealous that you had that (if it was you).

 

 

I did have that for a while, yes.   Should have kept that and maze of ith longer but ultimately I preferred collecting other art instead.

[Tatterdamillion]

Those are big boys.

[Bronty]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:16 PM, Tatterdamillion said:

Those are big boys.

Yeah, they are certainly worth a lot more now than what I sold them for, but the funds got redeployed well enough.    I think I got 10k for the pair of them and while that's not much today it helped me buy the video game box art I preferred and I picked up some big titles there too so I don't feel like I lost out except for the fact I should have found another way to get the 10k, perhaps.  

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bronty

[vodou]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:22 PM, Bronty said:

…except for the fact I should have found another way to get the 10k, perhaps.  

🏆

[Qalyar]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:51 AM, Bronty said:

And I can understand banning (or at least not reprinting) invoke prejudice given that the artwork has hooded figures and looks a little too KKK as a result.   

And featured artwork by an artist with what could be described as Nazi sympathies. And somehow managed to land Gatherer card id #1488, a significant codeword number for neo-Naziism. That had to go. Most of the rest came along for the ride.

As for Earthbind and this inane 30th Anniversary product... meh. We know they're not gonna print art like that again. They aren't memory hole-ing it, just not including it in this stupid non-play-legal cash grab product. I'm... not really concerned. Besides, there's credible reason to believe that they may not have had reprint rights from Quinton Hoover's estate to begin with.