Has the Purple label created the dislike for restored books? 3 3

[TrevorP24]

Question to all the collectors out there.  Maybe this has been hashed out before but couldn't find it.  Point me in the right direction if you know where I should look.

I've been collecting for a long time (before CGC was a thing).  It seems to me, that the utter disdain and devaluing of restored books didn't exist to the same degree before CGC.  Of course, restored books in the same condition as unrestored books have always been less valuable, but they didn't used to be as undesirable as they are now. 

My question is, did that purple label devalue restored comics more than it should have?  People just seem to really hate getting the purple label books (maybe cuz they don't match their other slabbed books?)  I don't mind restored books and sometimes target them to get a good deal.  I personally like how....gulp.... CBCS does it instead.  They label the book restored but don't have a different color label.

For example, I just purchased a Showcase 22 CGC 4.5 restored for about the same price as a 1.0-1.5 goes for.  It has slight color touch, and the top right of the cover is trimmed.  But it looks amazing and I have a book that presents really well for much much cheaper.

Thoughts??? 

[Lightning55]

It's strange how restoration carries different weights depending on the field of collecting. 

If you restore a piece of antique furniture by refinishing it, the value may drop by 80%.  The collectors insist on untouched authenticity. 

If you restore a valuable oil painting, the value could go up because the appearance is more appealing than having scrapes and tears visible.  If expertly done.

Restoration in comics definitely hurts, as people want them in original condition.  Just as grading is artificially increasing the value of comics, it is adversely affecting those comics that have restoration, widening the divide.

[mcribar]

Hey Trevor,

I've been collecting comics since 1977.  My first thought after reading your post was how many people have happily purchased restored books before they were officially identified and branded as being restored?  I would assume that is an astronomical number.  Sort of like having a cheating wife and not knowing it.  As long as you don't know, everything is fine.  But now that books are visibly branded as being restored I believe that many people are going to naturally shy away from them for no other reason than the visible branding.  I say MANY, not ALL.  And now we have conserved and restored which further complicates things.  Since a large portion of the market today consists of speculators/flippers and not collectors I think the restored label is having an overly negative effect on the collectibility since all the non-collectors really care about is the highest grade with no purple label.

Thank you for your post/question....  

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by mcribar

[mcribar]

On 11/11/2022 at 6:35 PM, Lightning55 said:

    Just as grading is artificially increasing the value of comics, it is adversely affecting those comics that have restoration, widening the divide.

Well said!

[Gaard]

Some people are like, "Don't even get that thing near my collection. It has a dab of ct on it, and I despise ct."  But if we lived in a parallel universe where restoration had no effect on the FMV, would people still sing that same song?

[The Lions Den]

Unfortunately, many restored books simply aren't as appealing to the eye. And since this is a highly visual hobby...well, you know...  

[Dr. Balls]

I think the deeper problem is that all the years of negative views on PLODs have hurt the entire marketplace. People hate PLODs, therefore they don't buy them - and a person who doesn't care will pay less, but his window of resale is much smaller. And let's face it, if you're blowing $500+ for a book, you're going to have it in your head that it needs to have potential resale value (should a better copy come up, your focus changes, whatever). Depending on the cost, you may not want to invest in a book with a PLOD knowing that you're not going to be able to unload it as fast as it's blue label counterpart - should the need arise.

I have zero problems with restored books, but I don't buy books for nostalgia. I buy them to collect. I love all my comics, but I can't assume that I will keep them until I'm dead - so I need to buy with resale potential in mind. I think a lot of people fit this category, and the PLODs have - unfortunately - been given a black eye, probably permanently.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[Qalyar]

Restoration in the art world is a different creature for two reasons. First, most pieces of traditional artwork are literally unique; sure, prints and such, but each given oil painting, say, exists only as a singular item. Fail to conserve it, and it ceases to be. Second, restoration and conservation in the art world have an established history and are generally done transparently (and especially now, reversibly where possible).

Restoration -- in the PLOD sense -- in the comics world is different. With few exceptions, if you don't like this copy of a book, go chase that copy instead. But much more importantly, the first era of comics restoration wasn't done for conservation; it was done simply to manipulate books into looking better. Almost always without disclosure, and sometimes including outright fraud.

There are problems with CGC's practices regarding the Conserved label, but in principle it's a great idea and important for the future. But that feels different, somehow, to a shady dealer taking a knife to the edge of a book because he'll flip it to an unsuspecting mark for a bigger wad of cash.

[Yorick]

On 11/11/2022 at 1:24 PM, TrevorP24 said:

Thoughts???

VERY cool book! 

[Randall Dowling]

On 11/11/2022 at 6:23 PM, The Lions Den said:

Unfortunately, many restored books simply aren't as appealing to the eye. And since this is a highly visual hobby...well, you know...  

So you're saying you only like the pretty ones.  Hmmm...

Edited November 12, 2022 by Randall Dowling

[Upgrayedd2]

On 11/11/2022 at 11:24 AM, TrevorP24 said:

Question to all the collectors out there.  Maybe this has been hashed out before but couldn't find it.  Point me in the right direction if you know where I should look.

I've been collecting for a long time (before CGC was a thing).  It seems to me, that the utter disdain and devaluing of restored books didn't exist to the same degree before CGC.  Of course, restored books in the same condition as unrestored books have always been less valuable, but they didn't used to be as undesirable as they are now. 

My question is, did that purple label devalue restored comics more than it should have?  People just seem to really hate getting the purple label books (maybe cuz they don't match their other slabbed books?)  I don't mind restored books and sometimes target them to get a good deal.  I personally like how....gulp.... CBCS does it instead.  They label the book restored but don't have a different color label.

For example, I just purchased a Showcase 22 CGC 4.5 restored for about the same price as a 1.0-1.5 goes for.  It has slight color touch, and the top right of the cover is trimmed.  But it looks amazing and I have a book that presents really well for much much cheaper.

Thoughts??? 

If you're ok with purchasing Restored comics, you are one lucky collector. Think of all the additional opportunities and lower prices available to you. Go get 'em.

[skypinkblu]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:27 PM, Qalyar said:

But much more importantly, the first era of comics restoration wasn't done for conservation; it was done simply to manipulate books into looking better. Almost always without disclosure, and sometimes including outright fraud.

I had this restored, paid more to restore it than I originally paid for the book. The book had brown tape on it, color touch and the spine was pretty much split.

I just didn't think I'd find a better copy and this guy is like an old friend who needed a hip and knee replacement and he's all the better for it, he can dance again:) 

 

[Roger66]

I have been in this crazy hobby on and off for 40+ years.  I have been fortunate to own many of the silver age keys I covet in blue labels.  I honestly look at certain restoration as the kiss of death on a book - for example trimming, pieces added, spine reinforced - however - my personal feelings should never-ever distract or denigrate another's purchase let alone your joy in owning a restored book, which is not my cup of tea.  I also loathe signatures on covers and when I see an AF15 with a super-common Stan Lee's signature - I feel a bit sick as if the book was desecrated but I am in the minority there and that is just my opinion.  I consider myself a pure collector in some ways and comics should not be trimmed, color touched or signed (signatures on super common stuff - fine) - and if they are I often don't give the book a 2nd look.    To each his own, which makes this an interesting if not animated topic of conversation.  

Edited November 12, 2022 by Roger66

[Chief1332]

From this relatively new collector, I have mixed feelings.

The stories.  The art.  The history.  And of course, the fun, comradery, and investment potential.

When something is added or taken away from a comic, making it other than original, it can certainly be less appealing.

I don't WANT someone's idea of improving a comic on one of my books.  However, if I really NEED something... well, different story.  And the lower price point can make up for that.

[ThothAmon]

Greatly appreciate Sharon’s efforts on that Action with Roger’s take being a tad too puritanical. Ranked in order of my ability to abide with- trimming (deal breaker usually), pieces added, color touch, glue, tape. We are caretakers of these rare GA comics so efforts made to preserve and enhance them are alright in my book. Don’t expect to get full price though. 

[skypinkblu]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:57 AM, ThothAmon said:

Greatly appreciate Sharon’s efforts on that Action with Roger’s take being a tad too puritanical. Ranked in order of my ability to abide with- trimming (deal breaker usually), pieces added, color touch, glue, tape. We are caretakers of these rare GA comics so efforts made to preserve and enhance them are alright in my book. Don’t expect to get full price though. 

Thanks, John...I understand Roger's feelings, for some reason I don't love "used" cars, I just keep my new ones a long time. Maybe because my first car was used and I got stuck in it more than once...but since part of my background was in art, I viewed fixing split pages as a restoration project, similar to what I would have wanted to do with a destroyed mosaic.

With that being said, I'd never start off "trimming" a perfectly readable book, or doing color touch. In the beginning, more than 20 years ago, I certainly taped some corners back on because I figured I was saving the corners, and more recently I've scraped some ugly mismatched paint off with a dental tool, but since I treasure old books I've never been in danger of harming a pristine new specimen. 

As for my Action 13, I'm happy to own the one I have, a blue 6.5 would not be in my price range, it's not a common book. I was lucky to find the one I have.

My WW#1 and Sensation 1 are also restored, but I bought them that way years ago, because that was what I could afford and I love them purple or not...purple happens to be my favorite color.

[Chief1332]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:46 AM, Shake N Bake said:

Don't forget, they're comic books 

Did you WANT to comment, or NEED to comment?

[Roger66]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:46 AM, Shake N Bake said:

Don't forget, they're comic books 

Actually they are much much more than that.  They are often historical treasures that were rarely preserved thus owning a special  ‘comic book’ is like finding a time capsule.  To be a true collector is to understand that gems 💎 can indeed be a comic book 📖 and one’s appreciation for history is what binds it to you. 

[Pukie]

Is there a way to gauge the approximate value of Silver & Bronze purple label books as a percentage of the blue label value? 

And what if books are raw? 

I have a couple books in my collection that look like they may have minor color touch.  They are raw.

 

 

 

[Sauce Dog]

The main problem with CGC 'restored labels' is that was the only catch all label right from the start. They lumped in all CONSERVATION done on a book with the restoration term. People would be disappointed with undisclosed restoration on their books, especially trimming, which brought lots of stigma to the purple label, and since CGC didn't really try to follow industry standards at the start to educate or differentiate between work done (at least not in a meaningful, clear visual way) that stigma got applied to any books with proper light conservation done to them. As I understand it Restoration is a subset of Conservation, and like was mentioned earlier are appreciated differently across hobbies. Poster collectors for example seem fine with work done on their old posters since they are meant for visual display first a foremost.

It is better now that there is a CONSERVED label, but the damage has been done and will take years before people in this hobby start to really understand the difference between the work done (we will get there, but I feel CGC hindered the clear understanding of any distinction due to how they handled labels initially)