Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1961) The Castaway Strikes Back 1 1

[Mmehdy]

As we are heading to FF#1 and as a person who paid 10 cents off the new stand, probably supermarket, I was at a San Diego Comic Con one year, and noticed a 50% discounted book entitled "Fantastic Four #1 Panel by Panel hardcover." I remember how great that book was But is was 4, 5,6 which really stood out in my mind, still I did a blind buy on it. To my surprise I learned a very important lesson. Going Panel by Panel in original comic book form I was simply stunned how really great this issue was. I had read probably 50 times FF1 in my lifetime which included the 25 times as a Kid. Jack Kirby put Roy Lichtenstein to shame 100 times over. I was stunned and my taken for granted appreciation hit a brick wall. This is a "pop art"  25 page masterpiece on elevated level yet to be achieved in comic book history. I highly recommend this still highly discounted book. It opened my eyes up and I was there from the beginning.

 I look forward to your amazing insight on the real creation of the marvel universe big bang. I do want to do a shout out to the late Greg Theakston and my conversations with him at SDCC on his  very important "Pure Images magazine  #1 (vol 3) and #2 on with his "birth of marvel comics"...I believe he was the first to publish the Ditko AF 15 cover and an early FF cover reject also....those articles were fantastic as they were not Stan Lee marvel propaganda. This guy interviewed  Kirby, Ditko( who refused to let Greg use him word for word) and Ditko's former roommate in PERSON. There is a 33 page history in depth article. However it was my conversations with him concerning the birth of both Marvel Comics which I was really interested in, the stuff that never made either publications which simply blew me away. If anyone has those and can post those issues, I think it went about 4/5 issues, I have them but they are in storage as a supplement to this best article of all time on marvel, which someday should be consolidated in a book or website...bring them forward. I can  still remember the look on his face, the smile with pride on my comment to him about How did you do this?...this is simply amazing....since this is 3d party I will qualify my comments to remind you in the future about the source....The conversations along with the great magazines changed the way I thought about the Big Bang coming up with FF1 and after. That is why this posts and your other ones are so refreshing, honest, and reflective of a past lost with the real story being brought out month by month.

Keep up the great work!!

Edited December 4, 2022 by Mmehdy

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

For Journey Into Mystery #73, Kirby would do the cover (inked by George Klein) and this time does two separate stories (one 6 page, the other 7), both inked by D. Ayers with the signatures...missing. Something seems different with this story... the dialogue isn't as sharp...

Story ONE:

[Prince Namor]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:06 AM, Mmehdy said:

As we are heading to FF#1 and as a person who paid 10 cents off the new stand, probably supermarket, I was at a San Diego Comic Con one year, and noticed a 50% discounted book entitled "Fantastic Four #1 Panel by Panel hardcover." I remember how great that book was But is was 4, 5,6 which really stood out in my mind, still I did a blind buy on it. To my surprise I learned a very important lesson. Going Panel by Panel in original comic book form I was simply stunned how really great this issue was. I had read probably 50 times FF1 in my lifetime which included the 25 times as a Kid. Jack Kirby put Roy Lichtenstein to shame 100 times over. I was stunned and my taken for granted appreciation hit a brick wall. This is a "pop art"  25 page masterpiece on elevated level yet to be achieved in comic book history. I highly recommend this still highly discounted book. It opened my eyes up and I was there from the beginning.

 I look forward to your amazing insight on the real creation of the marvel universe big bang. I do want to do a shout out to the late Greg Theakston and my conversations with him at SDCC on his  very important "Pure Images magazine  #1 (vol 3) and #2 on with his "birth of marvel comics"...I believe he was the first to publish the Ditko AF 15 cover and an early FF cover reject also....those articles were fantastic as they were not Stan Lee marvel propaganda. This guy interviewed  Kirby, Ditko( who refused to let Greg use him word for word) and Ditko's former roommate in PERSON. There is a 33 page history in depth article. However it was my conversations with him concerning the birth of both Marvel Comics which I was really interested in, the stuff that never made either publications which simply blew me away. If anyone has those and can post those issues, I think it went about 4/5 issues, I have them but they are in storage as a supplement to this best article of all time on marvel, which someday should be consolidated in a book or website...bring them forward. I can  still remember the look on his face, the smile with pride on my comment to him about How did you do this?...this is simply amazing....since this is 3d party I will qualify my comments to remind you in the future about the source....The conversations along with the great magazines changed the way I thought about the Big Bang coming up with FF1 and after. That is why this posts and your other ones are so refreshing, honest, and reflective of a past lost with the real story being brought out month by month.

Keep up the great work!!

Thanks Mitch! Glad you're enjoying it!

I'm discovering much of this as I lay it all out as well, and it WILL be in my book...

That Pure Images #1, also blew me away when I first read it... let me see what I can find, it would be great info to add here!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

For Journey Into Mystery #73... "Something seems different with this story... the dialogue isn't as sharp..."

LOL, this cracked me up...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

For Journey Into Mystery #73, the second story is 7 pages and also inked by D. Ayers with the signatures...missing. 

Story TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Just a note - its kinda strange no one really ever mentions this scenario in Journey Into Mystery #73 that we just saw - 10 months before Amazing Fantasy #15. The spider that gets accidentally bombarded by radiation... and sure, in this instance he becomes a monster, but...

Again, once you've seen the proof that Kirby wrote the monster stories himself - its easy to see that the entire Marvel Universe came from MONSTERS... THUS, he was the real creator of ALL of these stories. Did Stan edit and promote? Sure. Of course.

But Jack created this stuff. That's just what he did. 

 

[Prince Namor]

 

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Ditko also has a story for Journey Into Mystery #73, but its only signed Ditko!

Weird because the title uses Stan's new favorite word...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

The following week, 08/08/1961, in order of how the original jobs were assigned, we next have Tales to Astonish #25...

Kirby again, goes against what he'd previously been doing and instead does two shorter stories (a 6 and 7 pager), as well as the cover (all inked by D. Ayers, so any signature he might've left is nowhere to be found)

What's weird to me about this story is...it uses the same ending as we just saw a week ago in Journey Into Mystery #73's 'What Lurks on Channel X?'! Someone essentially breaks the connection to the TV set that has played a part in this connection to an earth invasion...

Did Lee even read these stories? How does an editor not recognize this? Was Kirby messing with him?

And why the shift from 2 part, 13 page stories all of the sudden? Was Lee incapable of synopsis' for Ditko that could cover more than 5 pages and didn't want to look as bad?

Story ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Tales to Astonish #25...Kirby again, goes against what he'd previously been doing and instead does two shorter stories (a 6 and 7 pager), as well as the cover (all inked by D. Ayers, so any signature he might've left is nowhere to be found)

Story TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

And I just noticed... In this issue of Tales to Astonish #25... released the same DAY as Fantastic Four #1, we have Kirby (remember, he wrote the Monster stories himself), writing that the aliens' (identity changing aliens, notice?) ship bombarded by Cosmic radiation! "It has penetrated ship! --Affected me--" Sound familiar?

Stan Lee was writing NOTHING like this at the time...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Ditko would also have his story in Tales to Astonish #25... signed Stan Lee & Ditko (again looking as if one was added after the fact.)

It's kinda funny how D. Ayers went out of his way to add the Kirby & Ayers signature for the two of them, but Ditko was completely oblivious to the idea of signing anyone but his own name... Lee had to add it himself...

And this 'Stan Lee' story... been around since the Golden Age in one form or another...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Kirby would do the cover only for Kid Colt Outlaw #101 (inked by George Klein).

Jack Keller has 3 splash pages in the book, his and Stan's signature on all three. D. Ayers has one and his and Stan's signature is on it. How about that?

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Tales of Suspense #25...Kirby again, goes against what he'd previously been doing and instead does two shorter stories (a 6 and 7 pager), as well as the cover (inked by Ditko). The interior art is inked by D. Ayers, which means the signature has mysteriously vanished...

Story ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Tales of Suspense #25...actually this story is inked by Sol Brodsky... no signature there either...

Story TWO:

Edited December 4, 2022 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Tales of Suspense #25...Ditko's story is signed in this issue by Stan Lee, and... it looks like Stan tried to sign Ditko's name as well. Ditko usually only signs as 'Ditko', not 'Steve Ditko'. C'mon Stan, you're the editor, you should know this stuff!

One thing I notice about these Stan Lee/Steve Ditko stories - besides their simple nature and strangely reminiscent storylines from other comics - is the LACK of wordiness by Stan... he really seems to be putting as little into this as possible and just relying on Ditko to supply the visuals to carry the story... which isn't a bad thing, other than, there isn't much story in the first place... Ditko does his best to stretch it over the course of 5 pages though...

Edited December 4, 2022 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Tales of Suspense #25...Paul Reinman was allowed to sign his story...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Strange Tales #90...Kirby does the cover (inked by George Klein) and writes and pencils only ONE 7 page story for this issue... From what I was talking about earlier... see how Kirby extensively uses the narration box at the top of panels to help tell the story... SOME of the stories that Stan is doing with Ditko, barely use them at all... Kirby's style IS the Silver Age Marvel Method of storytelling...

Incidentally I always got a kick out of how Kirby avoids freaking out the Comics Code with the gorilla killing Orrgo....

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Strange Tales #90... Ditko's penciled and inked 5 pager is a LOT more wordy and narrated than he'd been doing with his new writing partner (and would do in AAF), and thus, more Marvel style. Maybe Stan's learning from Jack. 

Stan again signs Ditko's name with his own on the splash page...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Millie the Model #105... Kirby had it bad, but Stan Goldberg REALLY got no respect from Stan Lee. It seems THESE were the rules:

You can sign the cover.

You can NOT sign the splash page.

You can NOT sign Pin-up pages or Paper Doll Pages. Only the writer can.

You can sign one panel (the 2nd one) of the last page of a story, but NOT on the lead story.

Kinda pathetic...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1961

Linda Carter, Student Nurse #2... Al Hartley however, had done a newspaper strip with Stan (Mrs. Lyon's Cubs, taking over after Joe Maneely passed away), so he was afforded a co-by line with Stan Lee. Even on the Paper Dolls! Prestigious indeed!